How is Donaire ahead of Williams, Haye, Dawson etc?

[boozeboxer]

another great post from our underrated veteran.

[OumaFan]

I'm not sure Lopez has done as much and he may be my favorite fighter.

Not sure about Haye either. Unified sounds great but has he beaten that much better fighters than Donaire? Not sure and I don't think he's as good a fighter.

Dawson, yes, and probably Williams too.

[Kev]

I'm not sure Lopez has done as much and he may be my favorite fighter.

Not sure about Haye either. Unified sounds great but has he beaten that much better fighters than Donaire? Not sure and I don't think he's as good a fighter.

Dawson, yes, and probably Williams too.

Who has Donaire beaten though aside from Vic?

He's never fought a single other opponent who has ever won a world title so his opposition Darchinyan aside is clearly inferior to everybody else probably in the top 20 p4p as everybody else has at least fought and beat former champs as well as one or two current champs.

And Darchinyan has done most of the great things in his career after the Donaire loss, so Donaire didn't defeat a Mijares, Arce two division world champ.

Juan Manuel Lopez destroyed Ponce De Leon and battered Penalosa which is probably already on a par with Donaire, and I wouldn't put Lopez in the top 15 yet.

[CFH]

He's a very good fighter, but he should not be ranked above Williams, Dawson, Cotto, or Caballero IMO.

[Kev]

He's a very good fighter, but he should not be ranked above Williams, Dawson, Cotto, or Caballero IMO.

Glad you agree Josh. I have wanted to rep you for ages but I have to spread to everyone else first and frankly I don't want to rep anybody else.

I wish Saddo would put the old 24 or maybe even a 48 hour system in place rather than having to spread it.

It just means I have to spread rep about 8 meaningless times to give some to you.

There are no rep clubs any more so why the spread rule? Just bring back the delayed timer and set at 48 hours before rerepping Saddo, you know it makes sense bossman

[CFH]

He's a very good fighter, but he should not be ranked above Williams, Dawson, Cotto, or Caballero IMO.

Glad you agree Josh. I have wanted to rep you for ages but I have to spread to everyone else first and frankly I don't want to rep anybody else.

I wish Saddo would put the old 24 or maybe even a 48 hour system in place rather than having to spread it.

It just means I have to spread rep about 8 meaningless times to give some to you.

There are no rep clubs any more so why the spread rule? Just bring back the delayed timer and set at 48 hours before rerepping Saddo, you know it makes sense bossman

We agree on that as well. I do not like having to rep a bunch of people for no other reason that to rep the person I want to.

[OumaFan]

I'm not sure Lopez has done as much and he may be my favorite fighter.

Not sure about Haye either. Unified sounds great but has he beaten that much better fighters than Donaire? Not sure and I don't think he's as good a fighter.

Dawson, yes, and probably Williams too.

Who has Donaire beaten though aside from Vic?

He's never fought a single other opponent who has ever won a world title so his opposition Darchinyan aside is clearly inferior to everybody else probably in the top 20 p4p as everybody else has at least fought and beat former champs as well as one or two current champs.

And Darchinyan has done most of the great things in his career after the Donaire loss, so Donaire didn't defeat a Mijares, Arce two division world champ.

Juan Manuel Lopez destroyed Ponce De Leon and battered Penalosa which is probably already on a par with Donaire, and I wouldn't put Lopez in the top 15 yet.

You didn't mention Dawson and Williams so I'm presuming you agree they should be above him?

Beating Ponce and Penalosa isn't equivalent to beating Vic though. And outside of those two JML has nothing on his resume, Donaire's is better.

Well I did mention Dawson and Williams I would probably rank Dawson and Williams above, maybe, but its not by much. Donaire has the best win of anybody being discussed here IMO. Dawson and Williams maybe have a better overall body of work. At least Dawson.

Of course P4P is not just about accomplishments, its subjective too but generally I think all four guys have top ten P4P talent.

A bit off the point but I have to disagree with CFH on Caballero. Not the other guys though.

[CFH]

I'm not sure Lopez has done as much and he may be my favorite fighter.

Not sure about Haye either. Unified sounds great but has he beaten that much better fighters than Donaire? Not sure and I don't think he's as good a fighter.

Dawson, yes, and probably Williams too.

Who has Donaire beaten though aside from Vic?

He's never fought a single other opponent who has ever won a world title so his opposition Darchinyan aside is clearly inferior to everybody else probably in the top 20 p4p as everybody else has at least fought and beat former champs as well as one or two current champs.

And Darchinyan has done most of the great things in his career after the Donaire loss, so Donaire didn't defeat a Mijares, Arce two division world champ.

Juan Manuel Lopez destroyed Ponce De Leon and battered Penalosa which is probably already on a par with Donaire, and I wouldn't put Lopez in the top 15 yet.

You didn't mention Dawson and Williams so I'm presuming you agree they should be above him?

Beating Ponce and Penalosa isn't equivalent to beating Vic though. And outside of those two JML has nothing on his resume, Donaire's is better.

Well I did mention Dawson and Williams I would probably rank Dawson and Williams above, maybe, but its not by much. Donaire has the best win of anybody being discussed here IMO. Dawson and Williams maybe have a better overall body of work. At least Dawson.

Of course P4P is not just about accomplishments, its subjective too but generally I think all four guys have top ten P4P talent.

A bit off the point but I have to disagree with CFH on Caballero. Not the other guys though.

I wasn't sure whether or not to include him, but he's a unified champion in a very good division. He's dominated and knocked out another undefeated belt holder (in his opponents hometown) and holds wins over Parra, Sithchat-whatever, and De Leon. IMO that's close to what Donaire has accomplished.

[OumaFan]

Yes its close. I would take Donaire. Again partly because subjective stuff plays some part in my P4P, I just think Donaire's a better fighter. Considering they both have good resumes but not great ones I would rank Donaire higher.

Does anybody solely do P4P on resume? I know its the main part but still.

Not to say I even do P4P.

I'm sure somebody will bring up Winky with Paul. I'm not sure how great that win is under the circumstances. Tarver's a bit iffy too. They're good, not great IMO.

[gest12645]

Williams, Guzman, Kessler, Pavlik, Abraham, Haye, Dawson all have a case for inclusion above him.

Only Williams is above him IMO , a case for Dawson could be made

[OumaFan]

I would say Dawson has the best case.

Adamek, Johnson, Tarver X2

[CFH]

Williams, Guzman, Kessler, Pavlik, Abraham, Haye, Dawson all have a case for inclusion above him.

Only Williams is above him IMO , a case for Dawson could be made

Skill-wise? Absolutely. But Guzman doesn't really have the resume to warrant inclusion. I that reflects the extremely subjective and murky nature of P4P lists in that the criteria are not at all clear.

I don't agree with Abraham either, but again these lists are so subjective.

[Taeth]

I think P. Williams, Chad Dawson, Berto all derseve mention in the top 10 p4p, but so does Donaire, its not all about competition, he is a super great fighter, why weren't people questioning why crap like Margarito, Cabellero, or Mijares or even Vic are up there. Darchaniyan is a joke as is Caballero and Mijares yet they were all placed near the top.

Last but not least you have to actually look at how good the guy is, competition isn't everything like I said, sometimes a better fighter doesn't have better competition.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Ok I know you guys will tell me what a super slick operator he is, but what has he actually done?

He knocked out Darchinyan in a big upset, and since then Darchinyan (NOT Donaire) has gone to do great things picking up titles in two weight classes and scoring big wins over Mijares (another hugely overinflated fighter) and Arce.

Donaire has the win over Darchinyan on his record and nothing else.

He has beaten ONE world champion, thats it. And I'm not talking about reigning champs here either, I mean only ONE opponent had EVER held a world title.

How the fuck does that put him above Paul Williams 3 time world champ in two weight classes plus a dominating win over one of the modern greats in Winky Wright?

How does that put him above David Haye, the unified cruiserweight world champ, or Chad Dawson the undefeated light heavyweight king with wins over two weight and reigning cruiserweight champ Adamek, plus wins over former undisputed champs (I think) Antonio Tarver (twice) and Glen Johnson?

How about Mikkell Kessler, three time world champ, wins over reigning champ Anthony Mundine, defending champ Marcus Beyer etc.

Has there EVER been a fighter who defeated ONE world champ who wasn't even in the top 10 p4p at the time and has never even fought let alone beat another world champ (not reigning but world champ at anytime in their career) and yet still gets a top place?

It's so undeserving, Juan Manuel Lopez has done just as much.

If people want to tell me he's super skillful and slick and I know nothing, ok maybe he is, but what has he actually done?

I was the only hater of Christian Mijares on here when everybody was claiming he was an all time great in the making and nobody could see how overated he was, well I called it then and I'm calling it now.

Donaire has done nothing to deserve top 10 status let alone top 7.

In a year after he gets sparked by Fernano Montiel or somebody similar he will be another forgotten man.

Williams, Guzman, Kessler, Pavlik, Abraham, Haye, Dawson all have a case for inclusion above him.

the answer is simple $$$$

[mad_takamura]

Ok I know you guys will tell me what a super slick operator he is, but what has he actually done?

He knocked out Darchinyan in a big upset, and since then Darchinyan (NOT Donaire) has gone to do great things picking up titles in two weight classes and scoring big wins over Mijares (another hugely overinflated fighter) and Arce.

Donaire has the win over Darchinyan on his record and nothing else.

He has beaten ONE world champion, thats it. And I'm not talking about reigning champs here either, I mean only ONE opponent had EVER held a world title.

How the fuck does that put him above Paul Williams 3 time world champ in two weight classes plus a dominating win over one of the modern greats in Winky Wright?

How does that put him above David Haye, the unified cruiserweight world champ, or Chad Dawson the undefeated light heavyweight king with wins over two weight and reigning cruiserweight champ Adamek, plus wins over former undisputed champs (I think) Antonio Tarver (twice) and Glen Johnson?

How about Mikkell Kessler, three time world champ, wins over reigning champ Anthony Mundine, defending champ Marcus Beyer etc.

Has there EVER been a fighter who defeated ONE world champ who wasn't even in the top 10 p4p at the time and has never even fought let alone beat another world champ (not reigning but world champ at anytime in their career) and yet still gets a top place?

It's so undeserving, Juan Manuel Lopez has done just as much.

If people want to tell me he's super skillful and slick and I know nothing, ok maybe he is, but what has he actually done?

I was the only hater of Christian Mijares on here when everybody was claiming he was an all time great in the making and nobody could see how overated he was, well I called it then and I'm calling it now.

Donaire has done nothing to deserve top 10 status let alone top 7.

In a year after he gets sparked by Fernano Montiel or somebody similar he will be another forgotten man.

Williams, Guzman, Kessler, Pavlik, Abraham, Haye, Dawson all have a case for inclusion above him.

the answer is simple $$$$

how? donaire paid them?