Quote Originally Posted by ICB View Post
I understand what your saying Donny but i think you are underrating, Sugar Ray Robinson. He was decades ahead of his time, the left hook he KO'ed Gene Fulmer with is possible the quickest/greatest left hook i've ever seen. That was like a RJJ type performance and KO.

I don't think it was to do with him not doing well at moving through the weightclasses, i think it was due to him being past his prime. And despite all that he still beat some very impressive names.

Sugar Ray Leonard beat a faded Marvin Hagler, who was on the slide. I think Marvin Hagler was for certain ready to be taken. By alot of the young upcoming Middleweights at that time,

It was an impressive display by Sugar Ray Leonard who was coming off a lay off. But Marvin Hagler was on the slide, especially after that brutal war with John Mugabi, which took alot out of him. Had Sugar Ray Leonard fought on at Middleweight, and had fought the young upcoming Middleweights. He for certain would of lost.

By the way Sugar Ray Leonard fought Donny Lalonde at catchweight. Sugar Ray Leonard was 165 where as Donny Lalonde was at 167. The difference being with Sugar Ray Robinson, he was 157 when he fought Joey Maxim, and Joey Maxim was at 173.

Sugar Ray Robinson was winning the fight until the unreal heat got to him, he was suffering from heat prostration. Which can kill you i believe, although im no expert on it.

Lastly you have got to be kidding me if you think Sugar Ray Robinson, may of lost to Iran Barkley. You say Sugar Ray Robinson was no defensive master. No he wasn't but he still had great reflexes, where as Iran Barkley stood straight up and would just eat punches all night long.

Iran Barkley defeated Tommy Hearns because Tommy Hearns had a suspect chin, and suspect stamina. It was just a bad style match up for Tommy Hearns, who was the better fighter by far. But Iran Barkley could take his punches, and had the power to turn Tommy Hearns lights out.

But other than that what did Iran Barkley do ? he couldn't beat the smaller Roberto Duran, he couldn't beat Robbie Simms in an all out war, he couldn't beat Sumbu Kalmabay, who had good upper bodyment and a good jab. All of which Sugar Ray Robinson done better than Sumbu Kalambay.

He couldn't beat Nigel Benn, and he was embarrassed by James Toney. His career is based off two wins over Tommy Hearns. Now im not saying he was a bad fighter, because he certainly wasn't. But he was pretty lucky to get where he was, because he only had an average skill set. And his power although good was also nothing special either.
I'm not having a go at Ray Robinson by any means.
the hook KO of Fulmer was magnificent, even scary, but one punch can't define a career.
I remember reading that Ray was alleged to be in his prime when moving to Middleweight.
He had a very long career and it was much later he truely started to take beatings.

From the footage I've seen of Robinson (admitedly at MW he seemed to be a fighter that was reliant on moving left, when forced right he seemed to get hit a lot, to me this suggests a weakness that could be identified and exploited by many fighters.

I won't argue that Marvin was on the slide. he hadn't looked inspiring in the Duran fight and he took a lot in the Mugabi fight, man the Hearns fight must've took its toll too!
However, i still would've picked him to beat 80% of challengers!

I know that Leonard has always claimed to have weighed 160 for that fight as he weighed in with a tracksuit pants in which he claimed to have held weights in the pockets, that is hearsay, perhaps sensationalism, but it looked to me like Lalonde enjoyed a considerable size advantage. Leonard dominated if me memory served me right

Heat prostation is essentially severe dehydration and heatstroke.
maxim was subject to the same conditions that Robinson was. The problem was that Robinson was past prime and not as well conditioned as he once had.

I'd rate Barkley highwer than you I think. I always attributed the Tommy wins to a "stylistic luxury," but at the same time I wouldn't say thats all he had.
With the size advantage and his mentality I'll bet he could work his way into a good fight there.
I mean if Turpin did