Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?

[Bilbo's Mom]

I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.

How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.

makes perfect sense to me... it's not about them being too physically big... it's about them being drained.

154 guys will most likely be drained at 147 so it's OK to fight them at that.

147 guys obviously wouldn't be drained at 147 so I guess we'll have to drag them down a bit lower.

Roach isn't stupid... and luckily for him the team have the $$$ ability to pull it off.

oh what a PPV shaped golden carrot will get people willing to do just to get a peice of it.

Finally a logical and obvious answer. Its to drain them plain and simple...Way to say it instead of trying to disguise it as "a compromise"

That's like if roy jones after beating ruiz, said "I want to fight lennox lewis but he has to come down to 210", then he wouldn't have been fighting lewis, he'd be fighting a shell of lewis.

Why would Lewis have to drop to 210 lbs? Lewis weighed in around 240 lbs so why are you making him drop 30 lbs?

The proposed catchweight from Manny asks Cotto to drop 2 single lbs.

So are you saying if Roy Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis but only if Lewis dropped 2 lbs and weighed in at no more than 238 lbs you wouldn't have been impressed?

As they are bigger so lbs count less lets make it 5 lbs, double the amount Cotto has to drop. Lewis had to weigh in at no more than 235 lbs would you be complaining that Jones was a coward and a pussy?

Seriously now if Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis as long as Lewis agreed to come in under 235 lbs the fight would have meant to nothing to you and Jones was a pussy?

You guys are unreal

[JonesJrMayweather]

makes perfect sense to me... it's not about them being too physically big... it's about them being drained.

154 guys will most likely be drained at 147 so it's OK to fight them at that.

147 guys obviously wouldn't be drained at 147 so I guess we'll have to drag them down a bit lower.

Roach isn't stupid... and luckily for him the team have the $$$ ability to pull it off.

oh what a PPV shaped golden carrot will get people willing to do just to get a peice of it.

Finally a logical and obvious answer. Its to drain them plain and simple...Way to say it instead of trying to disguise it as "a compromise"

That's like if roy jones after beating ruiz, said "I want to fight lennox lewis but he has to come down to 210", then he wouldn't have been fighting lewis, he'd be fighting a shell of lewis.

Why would Lewis have to drop to 210 lbs? Lewis weighed in around 240 lbs so why are you making him drop 30 lbs?

The proposed catchweight from Manny asks Cotto to drop 2 single lbs.

So are you saying if Roy Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis but only if Lewis dropped 2 lbs and weighed in at no more than 238 lbs you wouldn't have been impressed?

As they are bigger so lbs count less lets make it 5 lbs, double the amount Cotto has to drop. Lewis had to weigh in at no more than 235 lbs would you be complaining that Jones was a coward and a pussy?

Seriously now if Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis as long as Lewis agreed to come in under 235 lbs the fight would have meant to nothing to you and Jones was a pussy?

You guys are unreal

Don't quite understand how you come to that conclusion, but no one was suggesting that...and much like someone has already mentioned that at the smaller weights 2,3,4,5 pounds can be the difference its takes to give one a significant advantage. Much like asking a fighter that hasn't fought below a certain weight in over a decade to drop below that weight will make him weaker. Possibly even fatigued from over training. You can sell that "it's only two pounds" some where else. Because anyone that's done training in prep for a fight knows that if you're already struggling to make the 147 limit. That 3 or four more pounds will absolutely exhaust you.


Fact is pac has fought at 142 more recently than cotto and looked good at the weight. Cotto hasn't fought below 146 in three years. So given those facts its not really a compromise. Because PACMAN will be more comfortable at the weight than Cotto thus giving him an advantage.

[RP33]

i don't see what catchweights have to do with being P4P.. pound for pound means best regardless of weight.. doesn't necessarily meant weight CLASS..

on top of that, with catch weights it should be even EASIER to help determine who is P4P best considering you're not ONLY limited to your weight class and you would not have to hypothetically say, i wonder who is better between this welterweight and junior welterweight.. well they can meet in the middle and fight at a catchweight.

P4P becomes more difficult to figure out when you have guys who could never fight each other, and who dont have common opponents..

[Bilbo's Mom]

i don't see what catchweights have to do with being P4P.. pound for pound means best regardless of weight.. doesn't necessarily meant weight CLASS..

on top of that, with catch weights it should be even EASIER to help determine who is P4P best considering you're not ONLY limited to your weight class and you would not have to hypothetically say, i wonder who is better between this welterweight and junior welterweight.. well they can meet in the middle and fight at a catchweight.

P4P becomes more difficult to figure out when you have guys who could never fight each other, and who dont have common opponents..

Exactly mate, the weight classes exist to tell us who are the champions in those weight classes.

The very best fighters who win multiple world titles in multiple weight classes transcend that. Then they become the p4p stars and want to fight each other.

At this point belts and sticking to a weight division is no longer important, nobody cares about the WBO strap on the line against Cotto Pacqauio or what division they fight in, we just want them to fight!

As long as both fighters can make 144 lbs and are willing to fight that's all that matters. Who cares if its a title fight? Is the WBO belt THAT important when you've already won multiple world titles?

p4p fighters are no longer operating according to belts and classes, they've moved beyond that.

[Bilbo's Mom]

Finally a logical and obvious answer. Its to drain them plain and simple...Way to say it instead of trying to disguise it as "a compromise"

That's like if roy jones after beating ruiz, said "I want to fight lennox lewis but he has to come down to 210", then he wouldn't have been fighting lewis, he'd be fighting a shell of lewis.

Why would Lewis have to drop to 210 lbs? Lewis weighed in around 240 lbs so why are you making him drop 30 lbs?

The proposed catchweight from Manny asks Cotto to drop 2 single lbs.

So are you saying if Roy Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis but only if Lewis dropped 2 lbs and weighed in at no more than 238 lbs you wouldn't have been impressed?

As they are bigger so lbs count less lets make it 5 lbs, double the amount Cotto has to drop. Lewis had to weigh in at no more than 235 lbs would you be complaining that Jones was a coward and a pussy?

Seriously now if Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis as long as Lewis agreed to come in under 235 lbs the fight would have meant to nothing to you and Jones was a pussy?

You guys are unreal

Don't quite understand how you come to that conclusion, but no one was suggesting that...and much like someone has already mentioned that at the smaller weights 2,3,4,5 pounds can be the difference its takes to give one a significant advantage. Much like asking a fighter that hasn't fought below a certain weight in over a decade to drop below that weight will make him weaker. Possibly even fatigued from over training. You can sell that "it's only two pounds" some where else. Because anyone that's done training in prep for a fight knows that if you're already struggling to make the 147 limit. That 3 or four more pounds will absolutely exhaust you.


Fact is pac has fought at 142 more recently than cotto and looked good at the weight. Cotto hasn't fought below 146 in three years. So given those facts its not really a compromise. Because PACMAN will be more comfortable at the weight than Cotto thus giving him an advantage.

It's not going to be 142 it's going to be 143-145 only 2 lbs light than Cotto weighed in against Clottey.

Cotto weighed 246 against Clottey (technically a catchweight so no title should have been on the line arccording to some of you).

If Manny fights him he's likely to want the fight at 144 so Cotto would need to drop another 2 lbs, still 4 lbs less than what he was fighting at just 2 years ago.

Catchweights between p4p greats arn't rare, and they make sense. Both are champs so the belts arn't important nor the weight division, what matters is only the p4p quality opponent.

Hopkins who is already a massive middleweight dropped 2 lbs to fight Oscar and fought at 158 and knocked Oscar out. Yet everyone moans at Hopkins for fighting the smaller man, not how drained he was.

Then when Winky move up to fight Hopkins at a catchweight of 170 everyone moaned that Hopkins should have move DOWN and fought him at around 166lbs.

People will always moan about shit regardless. Pacquaio vs Cotto is one of the biggest potential matchups in boxing that can be made right now and it's nothing to do with the belt on the line or the weight division.

Nobody is watching Pacquaio Cotto because they are interested in seeing who is going to be the next holder of the WBO world strap, likely most people won't even know what version of the six world title belts will even be on the line, or what weight class it's fought at.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Why would Lewis have to drop to 210 lbs? Lewis weighed in around 240 lbs so why are you making him drop 30 lbs?

The proposed catchweight from Manny asks Cotto to drop 2 single lbs.

So are you saying if Roy Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis but only if Lewis dropped 2 lbs and weighed in at no more than 238 lbs you wouldn't have been impressed?

As they are bigger so lbs count less lets make it 5 lbs, double the amount Cotto has to drop. Lewis had to weigh in at no more than 235 lbs would you be complaining that Jones was a coward and a pussy?

Seriously now if Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis as long as Lewis agreed to come in under 235 lbs the fight would have meant to nothing to you and Jones was a pussy?

You guys are unreal

Don't quite understand how you come to that conclusion, but no one was suggesting that...and much like someone has already mentioned that at the smaller weights 2,3,4,5 pounds can be the difference its takes to give one a significant advantage. Much like asking a fighter that hasn't fought below a certain weight in over a decade to drop below that weight will make him weaker. Possibly even fatigued from over training. You can sell that "it's only two pounds" some where else. Because anyone that's done training in prep for a fight knows that if you're already struggling to make the 147 limit. That 3 or four more pounds will absolutely exhaust you.


Fact is pac has fought at 142 more recently than cotto and looked good at the weight. Cotto hasn't fought below 146 in three years. So given those facts its not really a compromise. Because PACMAN will be more comfortable at the weight than Cotto thus giving him an advantage.

It's not going to be 142 it's going to be 143-145 only 2 lbs light than Cotto weighed in against Clottey.

Cotto weighed 246 against Clottey (technically a catchweight so no title should have been on the line arccording to some of you).

If Manny fights him he's likely to want the fight at 144 so Cotto would need to drop another 2 lbs, still 4 lbs less than what he was fighting at just 2 years ago.

Catchweights between p4p greats arn't rare, and they make sense. Both are champs so the belts arn't important nor the weight division, what matters is only the p4p quality opponent.

Hopkins who is already a massive middleweight dropped 2 lbs to fight Oscar and fought at 158 and knocked Oscar out. Yet everyone moans at Hopkins for fighting the smaller man, not how drained he was.

Then when Winky move up to fight Hopkins at a catchweight of 170 everyone moaned that Hopkins should have move DOWN and fought him at around 166lbs.

People will always moan about shit regardless. Pacquaio vs Cotto is one of the biggest potential matchups in boxing that can be made right now and it's nothing to do with the belt on the line or the weight division.

Nobody is watching Pacquaio Cotto because they are interested in seeing who is going to be the next holder of the WBO world strap, likely most people won't even know what version of the six world title belts will even be on the line, or what weight class it's fought at.

Im assuming you meant 146... cotto weighing 146 against clottey didn't make it a catch weight. That means he came in one pound under the allowable WW limit of 147.

It's a catch weight if before hand they agreed that the weight limit is 146. Then because a limit of 146 isn't a legitimate weight class that makes it catch weight. Because according to the rules, cotto is allowed to weight anything from 136 to 147 in order to fight for the WW title. (rules stating that one must be at least one weight class under in order to fight for the belt)