Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145

[Bilbo's Mom]

No, he should not recieve full credit. Now if he was to fight Cotto at 147 with none of these phoney strings attached I would give him full credit for the win. Manny is looking for big money fights whilst trying to avoid risk by bringing WW's down from their optimum fighting weights. There are no more big money fights at 140 for him so he is trying on this tactic.

I refuse to give him much credit for that kind of carry on.

Miles you are simply wrong mate.

Had Oscar beaten Hopkins you wouldn't have credited him with that win?

As he lost, does that mean he's fucking useless as Hopkins must surely have been weight drained at 158 lbs and Oscar still got knocked out?

What about Hopkins win over Tarver? Tarver had just dropped down from heavyweight, Hopkins just beat a shell?

What about Pavlik losing to Hopkins? That fight was at a catchweight of 170 lbs. Pavlik was dominated by a weight drained Hopkins who gave up double the amount of weight than the two pounds Cotto might have to.

What about Joe Calzaghe's win over Hopkins? That was fought at 173 lbs so again Hopkins was weight drained. Why didn't they fight at the full 175 limit, does Calzaghe get no credit for that win?

I honestly think you guys are just letting your hate overtake your common sense.

I'm not clouded by hate in the slightest. I just happen to like the divisions we have and don't see the purpose nor point in having fighters not fighting at the given weights. If a 140 fighter is unable to get up to 147 then why should another fighter come down to a catchweight just to give the other guy more of a shot at pulling out the win. It's a lame move and I fail to see any merit in it.

Anyway, this thread is talking about Pac against Cotto, so in this situation I see NO reason why Manny couldn't find Cotto at 147 pounds. Why even bother having negotiations trying to buy Manny a more favourable weight deal? If he can't deal with the weight then piss off and fight a 140 fighter.

It's a simple logic.

You are completely missing the point. The weight classes and belts exist for fighters to fight and get recognition as being the best in that weight class.

When you reach the level of elite p4p fighter you transcend the weight classes and belts and move onto being an elite fighter.

Then the challenge is to fight other elite fighters who also have proved themselves the best in their weight class.

The whole world then wants to see these elite fighters fight each other, they become megafights.

You are just putting obstacles in the way of great fights how can you not see that?

If Cotto was still fighting at 140 you'd have no problem, you'd just be psyched because you were going to see a great fight.

But because he's moved to 147 you willingly submit yourself to some strange rules bondage and can no longer enjoy any fight between them unless it takes place at 147 lbs exactly and meets all the terms and requirements as laid down by the WBO Boxing Organisation.

Why does it matter about a weight class or a belt? Is the WBO strap really that important to you?

Manny is the 140 lb champ and Cotto is the 147 lb champ. It's not about Manny moving up to become the 147 lb champ he doesn't care about the WBO belt or the weight class, he want to beat Cotto.

So they fight at a catchweight agreeable to both fighters. If heaven forbid, there's no WBO belt on the line I think we can cope with that.

Think of all the great fights in history? How many do you look back on and can think ah yes this was for the WBC and IBF belts, and this took place in the junior lightweight division?

When we are talking about elite fighters who fight in many weight classes and win many belts it's not the belts and weight classes that are important, it's the fights.

[SweetPea]

Cotto is one of the 10 best fighters PFP in the world. Anytime you beat a Top 10 PFP fighter, you deserve credit for it.

Cotto will likely weigh 160+ on fight night. Pacquiao will likely weigh in the high 140s. Anytime you can beat a Top 10 PFP fighter who outweighs you by 10 pounds on fight night, you deserve a lot of credit for it.

If Pacquiao beats Cotto, he deserves a lot of credit for it. I don't see how anyone could suggest otherwise.

[levi#1BoxingFan]

It's just two pounds! I can understand if your having to make a 10 pound weight change, but come on its two meesly pounds, When i wake up in the morning I lose two pounds from taking a dump, so yes he should get credit!

[Pavlik]

Ofcourse PAC should get credit!!! My oh My just over a year ago PAC was just a superfeatherweight

[Rican]

I will give Manny credit if he beats Cotto at 145. First, Cotto can make 145 without being seriously drained. Second, at 145, Cotto will be fast and still STRONGER than Manny. Three, I believe Cotto will inflict Manny's worst beating as a boxer. Many people are forgetting that only physical, pressure, strong fighters give Cotto trouble. Speedy fighters with some pop or less power get brutally destroyed. Manny may have some pop at that weight and definitely speed, but he will not out physical/pressure Cotto. Just listen to Freddie Roach's comments. When Manny fought de la Hoya and Hatton, he had no doubt Manny would win. He publicly spelled out the blueprint to beat de la Hoya and he predicted a brutal KO of Hatton. If you read Roach's comments concerning a probable Cotto fight, they are more respectful and cautious. Roach has said that it will be a tough fight for Manny and he has also said that he believes Manny will win, but what trainer ever says his fighter will lose? At first, Roach was campaigning hard for the fight to be at 142. He later said 145 was OK, but maybe he realized that he was sounding too concerned publicly for Manny's health. Late round TKO by Cotto in my opinion.

[itouchpinoy]

Hell yah! remember Pacquiao is a natural 130 to 135lbs fighter. His fighting 10 lbs more... Any fighter who fights bigger guys should be credited!

At fight night Pacquiao will be 148lbs and Cotto will be 160lbs! So, 145lbs is no big deal...

[Dr. Steelhammer]

Cotto is slowing down drastically. His last 3 fights will prove that. Pac will spin him around all night and destroy slowly until Cotto's legs gives up. Pac by 10th.

[Cortez The Killer]

so, haven't read any of the other responses, but..

A year ago matching Cotto and Pacquiao would have been seen as a huge mistach for Cotto's benefit.

It's weird now. A couple weeks back I was reading on the Cotto forum and the posters there were saying Arum wanted Cotto to be a sacrificial lamb for Pacquiao. Whaaaaa?

If Pacman and Cotto ever meet, then Pac should get amazing credit for defeating Cotto if that is the outcome.

It's a big deal.

[KKisser]

i think people are giving pac way too much credit for the de la hoya and hatton wins. if those fights didn't happen i'm sure they'd be saying cotto will destroy pac even at 140lbs. lol

[Rantcatrat]

i think people are giving pac way too much credit for the de la hoya and hatton wins. if those fights didn't happen i'm sure they'd be saying cotto will destroy pac even at 140lbs. lol

not after the beating Cotto took from Margarito. prior to that beating, yes, i would agree.

in addition, absolutely destroying Hatton in basically one round at 140 - where he never had lost a fight before - is quite an accomplishment. and that knockout was easily a candidate for the knockout of the year.

after seeing odlh drained for the fight, there is a point in what you say, but remember prior to the fight, pac was the heavy underdog. many boxing fans, including myself, criticized odlh for fighting the much smaller pacman, and avoiding margarito and other fighters more his size. boy were we wrong.

[Dr. Steelhammer]

At 28? Hell no. Cotto is nowhere near someone's sacrificial lamb. He still so many things ahead of him if he gets pass Pac. But I can almost guarantee though, that Cotto will be the underdog in this fight.

[CFH]

He should get a lot of credit, but not as much as he would if the fight took place at 147. Beating Cotto at 145 is a monumental accomplishment for a fighter who started where Pac did, but it will be a defeat over a fighter who is not at his best. If it does take place at 145, people will be arguing the merits of the victory for the next 20 years.

One of my main issues (Killer brought this up, I think) is the fact that there is going to be a title on the line; titles should not be able to change hands at catchweights. If it's for the title, it's got to be at 147, otherwise the catchweight is fine (though, like I said above, people will use it as a means by which to debate the merit of the win).

I'd like to see them fight at 147, Pac would still win handily IMO.

[bzkfn]

Bilbo, you're missing the point I think. If this fight was made at 147, I guarantee more people would think Pacquiao would win. The fact is, he is THAT good, he could compete at 147 and win. To become great, you have to be willing to take great risk. The fact that I read that the WBO are already planning to sanction this fight as a Welterweight title fight is what makes this more annoying, because its not a Welterweight fight, its a fucking catchweight fight.

I am one of the few people on here who honestly believes that at 147, Manny would totally outbox Shane Mosley for 12 rounds. He is a superb fighter. So as the #1 fighter in the world, looking to put a further stamp on his legacy, why not fight at 147. He has absolutely nothing to lose!

[generalbulldog]

Bilbo, you're missing the point I think. If this fight was made at 147, I guarantee more people would think Pacquiao would win. The fact is, he is THAT good, he could compete at 147 and win. To become great, you have to be willing to take great risk. The fact that I read that the WBO are already planning to sanction this fight as a Welterweight title fight is what makes this more annoying, because its not a Welterweight fight, its a fucking catchweight fight.

I am one of the few people on here who honestly believes that at 147, Manny would totally outbox Shane Mosley for 12 rounds. He is a superb fighter. So as the #1 fighter in the world, looking to put a further stamp on his legacy, why not fight at 147. He has absolutely nothing to lose!

I have to say this is a great argument. Pacman does have nothing to lose. Even if he loses at 147 it would be because he jumped out of his comfort zone, but if he were to win it would be really huge. But I still think Shane is just too big and skilled for Pacman at 147. He has a good chance against Cotto at 147, but not Shane imo.

[bzkfn]

Bilbo, you're missing the point I think. If this fight was made at 147, I guarantee more people would think Pacquiao would win. The fact is, he is THAT good, he could compete at 147 and win. To become great, you have to be willing to take great risk. The fact that I read that the WBO are already planning to sanction this fight as a Welterweight title fight is what makes this more annoying, because its not a Welterweight fight, its a fucking catchweight fight.

I am one of the few people on here who honestly believes that at 147, Manny would totally outbox Shane Mosley for 12 rounds. He is a superb fighter. So as the #1 fighter in the world, looking to put a further stamp on his legacy, why not fight at 147. He has absolutely nothing to lose!

I have to say this is a great argument. Pacman does have nothing to lose. Even if he loses at 147 it would be because he jumped out of his comfort zone, but if he were to win it would be really huge. But I still think Shane is just too big and skilled for Pacman at 147. He has a good chance against Cotto at 147, but not Shane imo.

People have built Shane up again I think. But Margarito is a target that doesn't move his head. Manny gets in and out so fast and Shane isn't getting any younger. Inactivity will be his downfall sooner or later.