Regarding weight loss, straight from the horses mouth

[LEGION]

A lot of the most eagerly anticipated fights arn't. Cazlaghe Hopkins was a non title catchweight fight and I don't remember any complaints. So was Pavlik Hopkins.

Yet not a single person on this board complained that Pavlik and Calzaghe were cowards, forcing Hopkins to 'drain' himself and that the fights tarnished boxing.

In fact when Winky fought Hopkins also at a catchweight everyone said Winky was too small, even though once again Hopkins 'drained' himself by moving down to 168.

To be honest with you it has to do with Pacman's fans which in turn makes everyone hates Pacman and will use anything against him. I really don't like Pacman but seeing it from another perspective I really don't care about the catchweight if it's reasonable for Cotto.

That's it in a nutshell really. Nobody has ever complained one iota about catchweight fights before, which happen a lot more often than people realise but because of Pacmania they are all over this like flies on shit.

It's sad because they are missing out on the satisfaction of enjoying a true boxing superstar in the making.

Asia has never had an all time great superstar and for the first time in a very long time we have a chance for a fighter not from the continent of America to go on and become an alltime great.

His story is tremendous when you consider the poverty he has come from. His success epitomises everything that is great about boxing and his own courage, humility and willingness to fight all comers should be aplauded.

He's the ultimate throwback fighter, never backs down, has taken on challenges that nobody thought possible a couple years ago and he wants to continue further.

Its so sad to allow a few Pac lovers on a forum to cloud your judgement so much that it prevents you from enjoying the one fighter who is doing more for boxing than any other right now.

We should be proud of Manny, he's a terrific little fighter, great and humble guy and an inspiration for an entire continent numbering billions.

Absolutely. I really don't know how anyone could dislike the guy.

So just to be clear on this: if they do fight, will Cotto's WBO belt be on the line or not?

[Kev]

To be honest with you it has to do with Pacman's fans which in turn makes everyone hates Pacman and will use anything against him. I really don't like Pacman but seeing it from another perspective I really don't care about the catchweight if it's reasonable for Cotto.

That's it in a nutshell really. Nobody has ever complained one iota about catchweight fights before, which happen a lot more often than people realise but because of Pacmania they are all over this like flies on shit.

It's sad because they are missing out on the satisfaction of enjoying a true boxing superstar in the making.

Asia has never had an all time great superstar and for the first time in a very long time we have a chance for a fighter not from the continent of America to go on and become an alltime great.

His story is tremendous when you consider the poverty he has come from. His success epitomises everything that is great about boxing and his own courage, humility and willingness to fight all comers should be aplauded.

He's the ultimate throwback fighter, never backs down, has taken on challenges that nobody thought possible a couple years ago and he wants to continue further.

Its so sad to allow a few Pac lovers on a forum to cloud your judgement so much that it prevents you from enjoying the one fighter who is doing more for boxing than any other right now.

We should be proud of Manny, he's a terrific little fighter, great and humble guy and an inspiration for an entire continent numbering billions.

Absolutely. I really don't know how anyone could dislike the guy.

So just to be clear on this: if they do fight, will Cotto's WBO belt be on the line or not?

Just to be clear, who the fuck cares!

It's simply not about the belt.

But IF the belt is on the line can anybody really begrudge Manny possibly winning it?

I mean with all the mediocre paper belt holders in boxing today why in the world would anybody begrudge Manny winning an historic title because Cotto weighed in a couple pounds under the limit?

I just don't see how it tarnishes boxing in any way whatsoever if the belt is on the line.

Really with guys like Juan Urango, Giacobbe Fragomeni, Karoly Balzsay, Malcom Klassen and Paulos Moses all being recognised as world champions, does it really 'tarnish' the sport if the unquestioned most exciting, explosive, dynamic little fighter in the world today gets given a WBO strap if he vanquishes the current holder a couple pounds below the max weight limit?

No doubt to some fucking moany, whiny people it will be a travesty, but thankfully the boxing world pays no attention at all to them........

[generalbulldog]

I don't think real boxing fans care about the alphabet soup titles. They just want good fights. Who gives a shit about the wbo, ibf, wbu, wba, wbc, ibo the intercontinental bullshit title or whatever. They just want to see a good fight.


I think this fight with Cotto will be set at 144 or 145. Cotto can shed 1 or 2 pounds, since he came in at 146 against Clottey.

[Kev]

I don't think real boxing fans care about the alphabet soup titles. They just want good fights. Who gives a shit about the wbo, ibf, wbu, wba, wbc, ibo the intercontinental bullshit title or whatever. They just want to see a good fight.


I think this fight with Cotto will be set at 144 or 145. Cotto can shed 1 or 2 pounds, since he came in at 146 against Clottey.

Agreed, most people hate on all the organisations and how corrupt they are anyway yet when the Pacman is involved they suddenly want to prevent the tarnishing of these alphabet straps, it's quite bizarre really.

Thankfully history won't care one bit what weight this was fought at.

[Dr. Steelhammer]

Barrera didn't accept the WBC title when he defeated Morales for the first time. He did that just to prove a point - that you don't really need a silly belt to be called a champion. I remember how wicked piss Sulaiman was. Lol!

[LEGION]

That's it in a nutshell really. Nobody has ever complained one iota about catchweight fights before, which happen a lot more often than people realise but because of Pacmania they are all over this like flies on shit.

It's sad because they are missing out on the satisfaction of enjoying a true boxing superstar in the making.

Asia has never had an all time great superstar and for the first time in a very long time we have a chance for a fighter not from the continent of America to go on and become an alltime great.

His story is tremendous when you consider the poverty he has come from. His success epitomises everything that is great about boxing and his own courage, humility and willingness to fight all comers should be aplauded.

He's the ultimate throwback fighter, never backs down, has taken on challenges that nobody thought possible a couple years ago and he wants to continue further.

Its so sad to allow a few Pac lovers on a forum to cloud your judgement so much that it prevents you from enjoying the one fighter who is doing more for boxing than any other right now.

We should be proud of Manny, he's a terrific little fighter, great and humble guy and an inspiration for an entire continent numbering billions.

Absolutely. I really don't know how anyone could dislike the guy.

So just to be clear on this: if they do fight, will Cotto's WBO belt be on the line or not?

Just to be clear, who the fuck cares!

It's simply not about the belt.

But IF the belt is on the line can anybody really begrudge Manny possibly winning it?

I mean with all the mediocre paper belt holders in boxing today why in the world would anybody begrudge Manny winning an historic title because Cotto weighed in a couple pounds under the limit?

I just don't see how it tarnishes boxing in any way whatsoever if the belt is on the line.

Really with guys like Juan Urango, Giacobbe Fragomeni, Karoly Balzsay, Malcom Klassen and Paulos Moses all being recognised as world champions, does it really 'tarnish' the sport if the unquestioned most exciting, explosive, dynamic little fighter in the world today gets given a WBO strap if he vanquishes the current holder a couple pounds below the max weight limit?

No doubt to some fucking moany, whiny people it will be a travesty, but thankfully the boxing world pays no attention at all to them........

LOL; WAR Bilbo Baggins!!! Funny you calling the kettle black.

No I wouldn't begrudge him the belt should he win. I might have my own "whiny" issues but like I said before, issues or not, it's up to Cotto and his people to take the fight or not; and if the governing bodies don't care who am I to worry over it.

Plus, Manny is the draw in this fight calling the shots, Cotto isn't; and it could be very beneficial for Cotto to become more recognizable to the casual fans. If Cotto does take it, than obviously he and his people feel that the weight stipulations won't make a difference anyways. If Cotto loses I'm not the type to listen to excuses for a fighter{though Cotto doesn't seem that type}they make their choices. And in the end I just want to see the fight; going to be epic

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Manny doesn't give a tuppeny f*** about the WBO welterweight title he wants the prestige of beating the eliter juniorwelter/welter Miguel Cotto.

Both are P4P stars, they are NOT soley single division stars.

The weight class isn't important.

It doesn't taint the purity of the sport in any way. Having Juan Urango as a light welter world champ because Paulie Malignaggi wouldn't pay enough sanctioning fees to these greedy organistations is what taints the sport.

Manny Pacqauio is both bigger and better for the sport than the WBO welterweight strap.

No fan in the world cares about the history or heritage of that belt or any other.

When you watch a fight you arn't watching to see how the history of the WBO belt is going to unfurl they may as well be fighting for marbles or cream eggs, it just doesn't matter.

Manny vs Cotto is one of the biggest and best fights that can be made in our sport, from both a commercial and entertainment point of view, (to say nothing of legacy for both fighters) and anybody who would rather this didn't happen than to see the purity of the WBO belt heritage tarnished is just a complete idiot.

I admire your ability to take what someone says and make those comments seem as though they are in a totally different context….

I have never once said that Catchweights are detrimental to the sport of boxing because they tarnish the purity of a belt. No one anti-Cathcweight on this board has even mentioned Belts as a factor in their argument. I find you guilty of Fabrication Bilbo.

My reference to detriment comes purely out the notion that Cathweight is (as I said before) in essence, a demand. These demands have away of filtering through out a sport. Hence it’s not the purity of Alphabet titles that is at stake… It’s the maturing disregard for weight classes themselves.





Miguel can fight at 140 or 147, again he doesn't exist soley in any single division he is a p4p star.


Bullshit, Cotto is NOW soely a Welterweight. For example, who do you think Cotto would rather of fought. Hatton, or Margarito?




A lot of the most eagerly anticipated fights arn't. Cazlaghe Hopkins was a non title catchweight fight and I don't remember any complaints. So was Pavlik Hopkins.

Yet not a single person on this board complained that Pavlik and Calzaghe were cowards, forcing Hopkins to 'drain' himself and that the fights tarnished boxing.

In fact when Winky fought Hopkins also at a catchweight everyone said Winky was too small, even though once again Hopkins 'drained' himself by moving down to 168.

Again, this is a complete fabrication of the REAL truth.

Hopkins fought Winky at 170… not Super Middle.
And while Winky was clearly too small for the weight there’s NO WAY IN HELL Hopkins had to sacrifice anything for this fight. This ‘catchweight’ was no way a middle-ground.

In fact I remember correctly, when Hopkins initially decided to make the leap from 160 to 170+ He had to hire a top notch, overpriced Conditioning coach to ensure Hopkins bulked up for the higher weight.

Hopkins was making 160 with ease and to be honest, is much bigger up at this new weight. Its not like he couldn’t make 160, or 168.
He’s whole ploy has clearly been to do quite the opposite to what Pacquiao is trying to do now (equally as faggoty IMO ).

Finally a key point I’d like to make here is that Calzaghe, Pavlik and Wright were all consenting adult Meaning that they agreed the terms, which is fine for them. This doesn’t mean its fine for everybody.

Its also worth noting Bilbo that clearly Wright and Pavlik made the wrong choice in deciding to fight at 170. They only fighter who had any business moving up in weight actually beat Hopkins (Can you actually believe it!? ).




Really with guys like Juan Urango, Giacobbe Fragomeni, Karoly Balzsay, Malcom Klassen and Paulos Moses all being recognised as world champions, does it really 'tarnish' the sport if the unquestioned most exciting, explosive, dynamic little fighter in the world today gets given a WBO strap if he vanquishes the current holder a couple pounds below the max weight limit?

No doubt to some f***ing moany, whiny people it will be a travesty, but thankfully the boxing world pays no attention at all to them........

You don’t solve a problem by creating another one. Catchweights don’t solve the problem of weak paper champions.

IMO you make it sound like Manny Pacquio is he saviour of boxing and that fighting Cotto at the sacred weight of 143 will solve all of Boxing’s problems.

Bullshit. This fight would be a shot of Sugar in the arm and nothing more.

[Kev]

Manny doesn't give a tuppeny f*** about the WBO welterweight title he wants the prestige of beating the eliter juniorwelter/welter Miguel Cotto.

Both are P4P stars, they are NOT soley single division stars.

The weight class isn't important.

It doesn't taint the purity of the sport in any way. Having Juan Urango as a light welter world champ because Paulie Malignaggi wouldn't pay enough sanctioning fees to these greedy organistations is what taints the sport.

Manny Pacqauio is both bigger and better for the sport than the WBO welterweight strap.

No fan in the world cares about the history or heritage of that belt or any other.

When you watch a fight you arn't watching to see how the history of the WBO belt is going to unfurl they may as well be fighting for marbles or cream eggs, it just doesn't matter.

Manny vs Cotto is one of the biggest and best fights that can be made in our sport, from both a commercial and entertainment point of view, (to say nothing of legacy for both fighters) and anybody who would rather this didn't happen than to see the purity of the WBO belt heritage tarnished is just a complete idiot.

I admire your ability to take what someone says and make those comments seem as though they are in a totally different context….

I have never once said that Catchweights are detrimental to the sport of boxing because they tarnish the purity of a belt. No one anti-Cathcweight on this board has even mentioned Belts as a factor in their argument. I find you guilty of Fabrication Bilbo.

My reference to detriment comes purely out the notion that Cathweight is (as I said before) in essence, a demand. These demands have away of filtering through out a sport. Hence it’s not the purity of Alphabet titles that is at stake… It’s the maturing disregard for weight classes themselves.





Miguel can fight at 140 or 147, again he doesn't exist soley in any single division he is a p4p star.


Bullshit, Cotto is NOW soely a Welterweight. For example, who do you think Cotto would rather of fought. Hatton, or Margarito?




A lot of the most eagerly anticipated fights arn't. Cazlaghe Hopkins was a non title catchweight fight and I don't remember any complaints. So was Pavlik Hopkins.

Yet not a single person on this board complained that Pavlik and Calzaghe were cowards, forcing Hopkins to 'drain' himself and that the fights tarnished boxing.

In fact when Winky fought Hopkins also at a catchweight everyone said Winky was too small, even though once again Hopkins 'drained' himself by moving down to 168.

Again, this is a complete fabrication of the REAL truth.

Hopkins fought Winky at 170… not Super Middle.
And while Winky was clearly too small for the weight there’s NO WAY IN HELL Hopkins had to sacrifice anything for this fight. This ‘catchweight’ was no way a middle-ground.

In fact I remember correctly, when Hopkins initially decided to make the leap from 160 to 170+ He had to hire a top notch, overpriced Conditioning coach to ensure Hopkins bulked up for the higher weight.

Hopkins was making 160 with ease and to be honest, is much bigger up at this new weight. Its not like he couldn’t make 160, or 168.
He’s whole ploy has clearly been to do quite the opposite to what Pacquiao is trying to do now (equally as faggoty IMO ).

Finally a key point I’d like to make here is that Calzaghe, Pavlik and Wright were all consenting adult Meaning that they agreed the terms, which is fine for them. This doesn’t mean its fine for everybody.

Its also worth noting Bilbo that clearly Wright and Pavlik made the wrong choice in deciding to fight at 170. They only fighter who had any business moving up in weight actually beat Hopkins (Can you actually believe it!? ).




Really with guys like Juan Urango, Giacobbe Fragomeni, Karoly Balzsay, Malcom Klassen and Paulos Moses all being recognised as world champions, does it really 'tarnish' the sport if the unquestioned most exciting, explosive, dynamic little fighter in the world today gets given a WBO strap if he vanquishes the current holder a couple pounds below the max weight limit?

No doubt to some f***ing moany, whiny people it will be a travesty, but thankfully the boxing world pays no attention at all to them........

You don’t solve a problem by creating another one. Catchweights don’t solve the problem of weak paper champions.

IMO you make it sound like Manny Pacquio is he saviour of boxing and that fighting Cotto at the sacred weight of 143 will solve all of Boxing’s problems.

Bullshit. This fight would be a shot of Sugar in the arm and nothing more.

Well first off I wasn't referring to you at all in my last post, I didn't even realise you had posted regarding this I was talking about Adam and the like.

Secondly all your points just seem like a mass of contradiction to me.

How can you say Winky and Pavlik were dragged UP to a catchweight fight where B Hop coming DOWN was taking advantage of them and yet when Pacquaio moves up much further than both these guys he's taken advantage of Cotto?

Also if you want to try and say Hopkins could make 170 easily so he was at no disadvantage then what about when he fought Oscar at a catchweight of 158? If he was so naturally big for the weight how did he manage at almost 40 to shed those two precious pounds and weigh in under 160 for that fight?

Your logic needs to be consistent. If Manny is getting too big an advantage in bringing Cotto down a couple of pounds whilst moving up several himself then how come this advantage hasn't worked for anyone else, like Pavlik, Oscar and Winky against B Hop, like Cotto against Mosely, or even for the great Sugar Ray Leonard against Thomas Hearns, where Hearns defended his super middleweight title at a catchweight of 162 lbs and most people felt clearly won the fight?

Cotto is much smaller for his weight than Hopkins or Hearns were, and he's younger too, to say nothing of the fact that he doesn't even weigh in at the max 147 lb limit anyway.

How is he a full blown welterweight when he routinely weighs in at 146?

He can go to 145 EASILY, and if he can't SHAME ON HIM. If Mosely can do it, Hopkins can do it, Henry Armstrong could do it, Thomas Hearns could do it then why can't Cotto do it?

Manny is not a welterweight, and Cotto is not a big welterweight. Both can make 145 without any problems whatsoever so all this debate is pointless.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

OMG Bil come on... My logic needs to be consistant

Im not contradicting myself Bil, i'm simply commenting on two opposites of the same problem

Hopkins was making 160 EASILY. The fact he made 158 against Oscar supports this. Him moving up to 170 was done through bulking up. It was done carefully and professionally and it probably cost him a shit load of money. It was practically an investment!
Do you then understand that for him to want to fight smaller guys while bulking up stinks of Bullshit?

Now on the other hand, Manny Pacquiao fighting Oscar at 147 then stating that he will only fight Cotto at 143 (it was COTTO who wanted to fight at 145 Bil, you really need to get your facts together) again leaves a foul smell of bullshit in the air.

Now hows that for inconsistent

It's easy to point out how 'small' or 'big' a guy is for his weight but really your informed opinion has to be based on a bit more than just appearances.

Cotto hasn't fought below 146 for about 3 years now and each pound makes all the difference in terms of dehydration IMO.

And the end of the day Bil, if this fight were to happened it would of been signed by now but Cotto isn't silly, he obviously knows his own body. Mosley might be a bit desperate at this stage in his career but hopefully not.


Oh and finally, sorry about thinking you were aiming your posts at me. I thought that because i'm definitely aiming mine at you. Your the main protagonist for Catchweight fights and your quite the influential poster here on Saddo Boxing. I would feel a burning injustice if i were to let your i'll informed comments appear to hold water so again i apologise, honestly it's nothing personal but you know, im just doing my job

[Kev]

OMG Bil come on... My logic needs to be consistant

Im not contradicting myself Bil, i'm simply commenting on two opposites of the same problem

Hopkins was making 160 EASILY. The fact he made 158 against Oscar supports this. Him moving up to 170 was done through bulking up. It was done carefully and professionally and it probably cost him a shit load of money. It was practically an investment!
Do you then understand that for him to want to fight smaller guys while bulking up stinks of Bullshit?

Now on the other hand, Manny Pacquiao fighting Oscar at 147 then stating that he will only fight Cotto at 143 (it was COTTO who wanted to fight at 145 Bil, you really need to get your facts together) again leaves a foul smell of bullshit in the air.

Now hows that for inconsistent

It's easy to point out how 'small' or 'big' a guy is for his weight but really your informed opinion has to be based on a bit more than just appearances.

Cotto hasn't fought below 146 for about 3 years now and each pound makes all the difference in terms of dehydration IMO.

And the end of the day Bil, if this fight were to happened it would of been signed by now but Cotto isn't silly, he obviously knows his own body. Mosley might be a bit desperate at this stage in his career but hopefully not.


Oh and finally, sorry about thinking you were aiming your posts at me. I thought that because i'm definitely aiming mine at you. Your the main protagonist for Catchweight fights and your quite the influential poster here on Saddo Boxing. I would feel a burning injustice if i were to let your i'll informed comments appear to hold water so again i apologise, honestly it's nothing personal but you know, im just doing my job

Look if you think Hopkins made 158 easily I just cannot debate with you. Hopkins was a massive middleweight and his 'bulking up' as you put it was because he jumped 15 lbs and two weight classes in one go.

Hopkins is every bit as big as Tarver, Dawson, Jones Jr etc and always was he kept himself at 160 through fanatical dedication to the sport, the dude hasn't even eaten a chocolate bar in 20 years.

Anyway I'm sure you'l have reasons to explain how Marquez dragging Mayweather who only two fights ago was a junior middleweight down to 143 lbs is more acceptable than Manny wanting a catchweight fight against Cotto.