When Pacquiao beats Cotto

[Taeth]

Are half of you finally going to accept how good he is? People were saying that if he beat Hatton they would respect his p4p standing, even willingly place him in the top 20 p4p AT, but now people are making excuses for every single win he has had. So my question is...

When Pacquiao beats Cotto, and if he beats him very one sidedly, will you guys finally give him the credit he deserves? Or will you hide behind the weight, and the fact that Cotto was washed up, even though he clearly isn't?

I am just saying I have a strong feeling this could be a lopsided win for Manny, and it seems like the more impressively he wins the bigger the excuses get. I am not saying he is far and away better than Cotto, IMO maybe only Mayweather can say that, but that Pacquiao's style is terrible for Cotto's skill set.

[Gandalf]

My only issue is the weight. Why go ahead with 145 when 147 is so close and no question marks could be added if it were so?

If Manny dominates Cotto I will be surprised, but if he gets the win I will give him a lot of credit but not quite all the credit because he is taking Cotto down an entire 1000 grammes (or something like that) below what the fight should have been made at.

I'm sure Manny doesn't care less about credibility when he is earning all this money and taking away elements of risk in the process. He is a sensible business man.

[RP33]

Are half of you finally going to accept how good he is? People were saying that if he beat Hatton they would respect his p4p standing, even willingly place him in the top 20 p4p AT, but now people are making excuses for every single win he has had. So my question is...

When Pacquiao beats Cotto, and if he beats him very one sidedly, will you guys finally give him the credit he deserves? Or will you hide behind the weight, and the fact that Cotto was washed up, even though he clearly isn't?

I am just saying I have a strong feeling this could be a lopsided win for Manny, and it seems like the more impressively he wins the bigger the excuses get. I am not saying he is far and away better than Cotto, IMO maybe only Mayweather can say that, but that Pacquiao's style is terrible for Cotto's skill set.

It's weird how it works.. because if Pac beats him "easily", then the weight excuses will come out.. But if it's a great fight and Pac BARELY edges out an SD or something, after lets say getting knocked down once or twice, then he will get more credit..

Also, because of Cotto's loss to margarito, and close decision to Clottey, it's easy to say he's not the same fight as he was before margarito.. that's just the nature of it.. If he had one more decent win after those two fights, i feel that there could be less excuses.

As far as i'm concerned, I think it's stupid that it's at 145, but a 2lb difference, as opposed to a 4lb difference (if it was going to be at 143) isn't TOO much of a deal. I don't think 2lb will affect Cotto and i believe he will be in top shape.

[Fenster]

Don't be silly, the start of the excuses have already been highlighted in this thread - Cotto was weight drained, he wasn't the same after Margarito, looked shit against Clotty.. and they'll be a dozen more by time he loses.

No-one ever loses fair and square in boxing.

[Gandalf]

Cotto should not have agreed to the catchweight fullstop. Who else was Manny going to fight that could have stimulated some interest at a catchweight and make the same money? Mosley....Berto...Collazo?

Cotto is a bigger draw than those guys and he yet he gives up some of his natural weight advantage. A bit of a cop out. Manny had nowhere else to turn really. He really doesn't want to fight Mosley nor resort to fighting minor players like Berto. And yet we got the cop out result.

If Cotto beats the living Jesus out of him it's all good. Which I think he might do. But otherwise, catchweights really, really suck. Cotto beats a midget then I say fair enough because he drained down to the midgets current size.

[Fenster]

Cotto should not have agreed to the catchweight fullstop. Who else was Manny going to fight that could have stimulated some interest at a catchweight and make the same money? Mosley....Berto...Collazo?

Cotto is a bigger draw than those guys and he yet he gives up some of his natural weight advantage. A bit of a cop out. Manny had nowhere else to turn really. He really doesn't want to fight Mosley nor resort to fighting minor players like Berto. And yet we got the cop out result.

If Cotto beats the living Jesus out of him it's all good. Which I think he might do. But otherwise, catchweights really, really suck. Cotto beats a midget then I say fair enough because he drained down to the midgets current size.

Don't worry Miles,

Cotto's career high payday compensated for the couple of pounds lost in weight

[LEGION]

Are half of you finally going to accept how good he is? People were saying that if he beat Hatton they would respect his p4p standing, even willingly place him in the top 20 p4p AT, but now people are making excuses for every single win he has had. So my question is...

When Pacquiao beats Cotto, and if he beats him very one sidedly, will you guys finally give him the credit he deserves? Or will you hide behind the weight, and the fact that Cotto was washed up, even though he clearly isn't?

I am just saying I have a strong feeling this could be a lopsided win for Manny, and it seems like the more impressively he wins the bigger the excuses get. I am not saying he is far and away better than Cotto, IMO maybe only Mayweather can say that, but that Pacquiao's style is terrible for Cotto's skill set.

I give him credit right now. I never thought Hatton had a snow balls chance in hell of beating Pac. That was the quickest, worst beating of a supposedly elite fighter I ever saw; it wasn't even a fight. I knew he would win but damn

Oscar was drained but too bad that was his own ego and lack of regard for Pac, and he got beat silly. I'd still think Pac could beat Oscar without the weight issues; maybe not a prime Oscar mind you, but a hydrated Oscar of the last few years.

I actually did get impressed with his pummeling of Diaz. Diaz granted wasn't a GOAT candidate but Pac knocked out a guy in a higher division who had only been stoped once and it was a one sided affair from a guy who started at fleaweight fighting a big LW. I actually thought Diaz would win due to his chin and just being bigger; dumb prediction.

If he pulls off this win against Cotto how can anyone take credit away? I don't like the 145 thing personally; because if you want the title and stupid trinket to wrap around your waist, then play within the rules. But Cotto doesn't have a problem with it, nor the governing bodies, so it's on and if he wins it's massive; I won't rain on his parade. I think he wins a decision in an epic fight.

[Gandalf]

Cotto should not have agreed to the catchweight fullstop. Who else was Manny going to fight that could have stimulated some interest at a catchweight and make the same money? Mosley....Berto...Collazo?

Cotto is a bigger draw than those guys and he yet he gives up some of his natural weight advantage. A bit of a cop out. Manny had nowhere else to turn really. He really doesn't want to fight Mosley nor resort to fighting minor players like Berto. And yet we got the cop out result.

If Cotto beats the living Jesus out of him it's all good. Which I think he might do. But otherwise, catchweights really, really suck. Cotto beats a midget then I say fair enough because he drained down to the midgets current size.

Don't worry Miles,

Cotto's career high payday compensated for the couple of pounds lost in weight

Yep, he's a smart businessman too. I don't like these catchweights, that's all. Pac beat Hatton up fair and square and that was cool. I can give credit. Manny beat him up, Hatton was stupid but that's life. But to now try and use catchweights to secure advantages is really crappy and weak. It shows a Manny at the end of his limits trying to take what he can at the least cost. And as a purist, I just hate that.

[Fenster]

Cotto should not have agreed to the catchweight fullstop. Who else was Manny going to fight that could have stimulated some interest at a catchweight and make the same money? Mosley....Berto...Collazo?

Cotto is a bigger draw than those guys and he yet he gives up some of his natural weight advantage. A bit of a cop out. Manny had nowhere else to turn really. He really doesn't want to fight Mosley nor resort to fighting minor players like Berto. And yet we got the cop out result.

If Cotto beats the living Jesus out of him it's all good. Which I think he might do. But otherwise, catchweights really, really suck. Cotto beats a midget then I say fair enough because he drained down to the midgets current size.

Don't worry Miles,

Cotto's career high payday compensated for the couple of pounds lost in weight

Yep, he's a smart businessman too. I don't like these catchweights, that's all. Pac beat Hatton up fair and square and that was cool. I can give credit. Manny beat him up, Hatton was stupid but that's life. But to now try and use catchweights to secure advantages is really crappy and weak. It shows a Manny at the end of his limits trying to take what he can at the least cost. And as a purist, I just hate that.

Surely you would rather see the fight than not though?

If catchweights mean certain fights will happen then it's a good thing, no? And this is a great fight.

One year ago a fight between Cotto and Pac would have been laughed out of town - because obviously Pac would get killed. Now he's the favourite. Amazing.

[Rican]

The problem is that if you are considered the pound for pound king, then you should not be fighting at or demanding catchweights. Because this fight is at a catchweight, Manny is losing some respect, especially if Manny wins against Cotto, whom we all know had weight issues in the past below 147.

I certainly think Cotto is still good and definitely not washed up (he has been fighting the top welterweights for some time now-of course not all of those fights will be resounding successes). I also do not think that Manny can fuk with Cotto's power, jab, body attack, and ring intelligence. It will take Cotto about two rounds to adjust to Manny's speed and feel how much power he has, and after that, it will get brutal for Manny. So if Manny wins, I will give him credit, even at 145, a weight that will allow Cotto to retain whatever speed he has AND his well-known power.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Don't be silly, the start of the excuses have already been highlighted in this thread - Cotto was weight drained, he wasn't the same after Margarito, looked shit against Clotty.. and they'll be a dozen more by time he loses.

No-one ever loses fair and square in boxing.

not when the boxer/trainer start dictating the rules/weights.

[Gandalf]

Don't worry Miles,

Cotto's career high payday compensated for the couple of pounds lost in weight

Yep, he's a smart businessman too. I don't like these catchweights, that's all. Pac beat Hatton up fair and square and that was cool. I can give credit. Manny beat him up, Hatton was stupid but that's life. But to now try and use catchweights to secure advantages is really crappy and weak. It shows a Manny at the end of his limits trying to take what he can at the least cost. And as a purist, I just hate that.

Surely you would rather see the fight than not though?

If catchweights mean certain fights will happen then it's a good thing, no? And this is a great fight.

One year ago a fight between Cotto and Pac would have been laughed out of town - because obviously Pac would get killed. Now he's the favourite. Amazing.

Of course I will watch. How could I not?

But it would mean that bit more if it was 147 no questions asked. That for me is the real fight and if Manny topples the man then all you can do is sit back and say "fair play".

As it is, we have debates like this that shouldn't be happening. It should be a 147 fight. Is Manny really that scared by a couple of pounds?

[Fenster]

Don't be silly, the start of the excuses have already been highlighted in this thread - Cotto was weight drained, he wasn't the same after Margarito, looked shit against Clotty.. and they'll be a dozen more by time he loses.

No-one ever loses fair and square in boxing.

not when the boxer/trainer start dictating the rules/weights.

Well if the other guy is happy enough to agree where's the problem?

[generalbulldog]

At first I had a problem with catchweights but then there has been quite a few catchweight fights in boxing history and former p4p kings like De La Hoya and Ray Leonard has done it.

Hell I didn't even know that JCC and Whitaker fought at a catchweight in '93, I thought it was just a welterweight fight and so did many people, but it was a catchweight at 145 just like this fight, except that fight was between the no.1 and no. 2 p4p fighters at that time. That was still a great fight even if it was at a catchweight.

[Fenster]

Yep, he's a smart businessman too. I don't like these catchweights, that's all. Pac beat Hatton up fair and square and that was cool. I can give credit. Manny beat him up, Hatton was stupid but that's life. But to now try and use catchweights to secure advantages is really crappy and weak. It shows a Manny at the end of his limits trying to take what he can at the least cost. And as a purist, I just hate that.

Surely you would rather see the fight than not though?

If catchweights mean certain fights will happen then it's a good thing, no? And this is a great fight.

One year ago a fight between Cotto and Pac would have been laughed out of town - because obviously Pac would get killed. Now he's the favourite. Amazing.

Of course I will watch. How could I not?

But it would mean that bit more if it was 147 no questions asked. That for me is the real fight and if Manny topples the man then all you can do is sit back and say "fair play".

As it is, we have debates like this that shouldn't be happening. It should be a 147 fight. Is Manny really that scared by a couple of pounds?

Maybe he is, but the important thing is Cotto wasn't scared about losing a couple of pounds, otherwise he would have refused the fight