if mike tyson beat buster douglas

[ono]

I love it how people say he was on the decline. He was 23. Could it not be the fact he had a lot of impressive wins over guys who had padded records, coupled with the fact he was a very intimidating person with spectacular knockout power that made it look like he was indestructable?

Boxing isn't all physical. Just because he's in his physical prime means nothing if he mentally isn't there anymore. He was on again off again retired and had no one around him to push him, he had Don King feeding him his own hype and he really didn't want to box anymore but its all he could do. Mike Tyson was in his physical prime, but in my opinion once you mentally aren't there anymore then it's over for you. You can't play boxing. if it was all physical prowess then Zab Judah would be undefeated and won the undisputed title at 140 and 147. But because he's as mentally fragile as a bull in a china shop he underachieved. And Tyson was an underachiever. And he got rid of the people around him that actually made him achieve and push himself, once he got rid of them, he slacked off in training and relied only on his power, and was getting dropped in sparring.

You can call that a prime Tyson if you want to but a prime has a lot more to do with then just when you're physically your best, because it means absolutely nothing if you're mentally in another place.

I understand what you are saying and generally i agree. Thing is, Tyson isn't the only fighter to have suffered from a weak mentality. His may be the most well documented but plenty of fighters out there probably go through just as much turmoil during their career without it effecting them so much. It's just that this isn't as well documented because not everyone is as well-known as Iron Mike. It's part and parcel of life.

My point of him being 23 wasn't designed to claim that prime is down to age because as you rightly stated - it isn't. But how many top quality fighters did he beat before he was apparently on the decline? And at what stage in their careers we're these fighters at? I can think of a lot of good fighters but i can't think of any top quality prime fighters. Maybe you can make a case for Spinks before you move on to your good fighters like Bruno, Berbick, Tucker. The sort of fighters you would have expected him to beat.

Few talk about Naz's refusal to train properly/surrounding himself with wrong people/hiring and firing trainers when they talk about his loss to Barrera. Found out is the word often used. I'm not comparing Naz to Tyson and i'm certainly not comparing Barrera to Douglas but saying Tyson was on the decline really doesn't even tell half the story.

[generalbulldog]

I love it how people say he was on the decline. He was 23. Could it not be the fact he had a lot of impressive wins over guys who had padded records, coupled with the fact he was a very intimidating person with spectacular knockout power that made it look like he was indestructable?

Boxing isn't all physical. Just because he's in his physical prime means nothing if he mentally isn't there anymore. He was on again off again retired and had no one around him to push him, he had Don King feeding him his own hype and he really didn't want to box anymore but its all he could do. Mike Tyson was in his physical prime, but in my opinion once you mentally aren't there anymore then it's over for you. You can't play boxing. if it was all physical prowess then Zab Judah would be undefeated and won the undisputed title at 140 and 147. But because he's as mentally fragile as a bull in a china shop he underachieved. And Tyson was an underachiever. And he got rid of the people around him that actually made him achieve and push himself, once he got rid of them, he slacked off in training and relied only on his power, and was getting dropped in sparring.

You can call that a prime Tyson if you want to but a prime has a lot more to do with then just when you're physically your best, because it means absolutely nothing if you're mentally in another place.

I understand what you are saying and generally i agree. Thing is, Tyson isn't the only fighter to have suffered from a weak mentality. His may be the most well documented but plenty of fighters out there probably go through just as much turmoil during their career without it effecting them so much. It's just that this isn't as well documented because not everyone is as well-known as Iron Mike. It's part and parcel of life.

My point of him being 23 wasn't designed to claim that prime is down to age because as you rightly stated - it isn't. But how many top quality fighters did he beat before he was apparently on the decline? And at what stage in their careers we're these fighters at? I can think of a lot of good fighters but i can't think of any top quality prime fighters. Maybe you can make a case for Spinks before you move on to your good fighters like Bruno, Berbick, Tucker. The sort of fighters you would have expected him to beat.

Few talk about Naz's refusal to train properly/surrounding himself with wrong people/hiring and firing trainers when they talk about his loss to Barrera. Found out is the word often used. I'm not comparing Naz to Tyson and i'm certainly not comparing Barrera to Douglas but saying Tyson was on the decline really doesn't even tell half the story.

Naz was another great fighter that did not fulfill his potential just like Tyson. Both were mental midgets that seemed to lack the motivation and believed in too much of their own hype to continually keep improving, but they were both great under their original trainers that knew how to bring out the best in them. The other trainers seemingly didn't work.

I just got done watching the Larry Merchant interview for the interview on Tyson and Douglass and Merchant was complaining about Tyson's trainers and this quote sums it all up, "When you have Secretariat, you don't just let any Jockey ride him." Tyson's new trainer didn't even have a endswell for his eye but was using water balloons ffs! The right trainer and right chemistry is also very important. Just take the Pacquiao-Roach relationship, would Pacquiao have accomplished all he had in his career if he still stuck with his Filipino trainers where he got knocked out by bums?

Now, I'm not saying guys like Naz and Tyson would be undefeated and invincible, but their skills level were noticeably on the decline before their first losses when they changed trainers. You can tell something just wasn't right.

[Master]

Tyson was crap against Douglas, no head movement and lack of combo's. His team were a joke and the whole contest was a disaster for him. He wanted a rematch because he knew he took Douglas too lightly.