Felix "Tito" Trinidad the last real dominant WW Champ...

[VictorCharlie]

ODH, Tito and Mosely never really answered who was the best @ WW. I thought Oscar beat Tito but a rematch would have been really interested. I also thought Oscar won the second fight with Shane so a third was really needed. Not sure how a Mosely v Tito fight never happened. I'd take Shane in that one. To me I put both Shane and Oscar slightly above Tito and w/o a third fight between the two I can't say who I think was the better WW. I'd say its fair to say Tito has had the most relevant reigh at WW of the last several champs. Williams could probably own the division if he wanted it but great WWs never seem to stay welters very long.

[Rican]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

[Puerto Rican Punch]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

[ElTerribleMorales]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

[Rican]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

[Master]

Tito dominated light middle too, he beat very good champions at that weight.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

[Puerto Rican Punch]

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter...

[TitoFan]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

Hey PR Punch... good to see you back in the forum. I 100% agree with your and Rican's points. And something Tito gets very little credit for, in my opinion...

It's easy to downplay Tito's wins over the likes of Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, Fernando Vargas... all undefeated at the time. Other people have beaten these guys, the detractors will claim. But how about giving Tito credit for putting the first "L" on their records? For fighting them when they were rising stars? At their most dangerous? When no one else wanted a piece of them? It's easy to say that "Oscar beat them too." Yeah... AFTER Tito had taken them apart. But some people conveniently forget that.

Yeah, Tito dominated 147. And would've dominated 154 for a long time also, but went up quickly to 160 and ran into Bernard Hopkins. He did destroy 160-pound champ William Joppy by KO before that, though.

[ElTerribleMorales]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

Hey PR Punch... good to see you back in the forum. I 100% agree with your and Rican's points. And something Tito gets very little credit for, in my opinion...

It's easy to downplay Tito's wins over the likes of Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, Fernando Vargas... all undefeated at the time. Other people have beaten these guys, the detractors will claim. But how about giving Tito credit for putting the first "L" on their records? For fighting them when they were rising stars? At their most dangerous? When no one else wanted a piece of them? It's easy to say that "Oscar beat them too." Yeah... AFTER Tito had taken them apart. But some people conveniently forget that.

Yeah, Tito dominated 147. And would've dominated 154 for a long time also, but went up quickly to 160 and ran into Bernard Hopkins. He did destroy 160-pound champ William Joppy by KO before that, though.

Vargas was at 154, and no one is trying to take anything away from Tito, just pointing out the fact that he was never the CLEAR CUT best at 147, DLH should of gotten the win, and Mosley and Quartey could of given him a hell of a fight where it would have been 50/50 at most, Trinidad never should have left 154, and IMO would of ended with a better career with possible fights against Forrest, Mosley, rematch with DLH, Santos, ect.