Felix "Tito" Trinidad the last real dominant WW Champ...

[Puerto Rican Punch]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

[ElTerribleMorales]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

[Rican]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

[Master]

Tito dominated light middle too, he beat very good champions at that weight.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

[Puerto Rican Punch]

In order to DOMINATE a division you had to be the clear cut best, and sorry by not fighting Quartey and getting a GIFT decision against De La Hoya, whom by the way boxed circles around Trinidad for 9 odd rounds and basically showed the way to beat Tito, and yea IMO Trinidad did more to establish himself as the best at 154 then he did at 147, having the best title reign and being the dominant fighter of a division are two different things, although he didn't avoid anyone (IMO he would of taken fights with Quartey, Mosley, and Forrest if they would have presented themselves available) he didn't manage to make him the clear cut best in the division, if not left it open for discussion, and Trinidad was far from DOMINATING at 154, he struggled against a 15-0 David Reid and his fight against the 22 yr old Vargas was pretty much back and forth, a very competitive fight, far from domating display, fighters who have dominated their divisions are Hopkins at 160, Roy Jones Jr. at 175, Joe Calzaghe at 168, Calderon at 105, ect.

Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter...

[ElTerribleMorales]

Dude, usually I agree with you, but how can you say Trinidad did more to establish himself at 154 than at 147? Tito only fought three times at 154 after moving up! Then later you say he was far from dominating at 154, but again, he only fought there three times, beat two champions, and didn't Tito knockdown Reid seven times? Vargas 4-5? And who did Quartey fight at 147 other than Oscar? I think you are giving Quartey too much credit. In terms of Oscar, he did not provide the blueprint to beat Trinidad. Hopkins did. Oscar was missing the power to stop Tito in his tracks. Hopkins and Wright had that power.

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter...

De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

[Master]

After Mayorga, Tito has embarrassed himself and his legacy but he was dominate at welter and light middle.

[Rican]

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter...

De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

I have followed Trinidad's career from thge beginning and I do not recall him bad mouthing anyone. I always remember Trinidad expressing the utmost confidence in his abilities rather than badmouthinmg or insulting his opponents. Perhaps you can get some direct quotes for me. I know that things got pretty heated during the promotions between the noted loudmouths Vargas, mayorga, and Hopkins, but it seemed like those three were the agressors.

So if Trinidad wasn't the most dominant during his reign at 147, a good question is who, in your opinion was? And what do you consider dominant?

[Puerto Rican Punch]

he was the clear cut best by the time he beat Vargas, because Wright was pretty much an unknown at that time, well maybe not unknown but he wasn't the force that he would later end up being at 154, aside from Carr, an old Whitaker, and Campas, what real capable fighter did he beat that was at his peak, DLH was a gift decision, again i'm not saying that Trinidad wasn't a force at 147, but he was far from dominant, and yea he dropped Reid a bunch of times, and yet still struggled in that fight, and De La Hoya gave the blueprint on how to beat Trinidad, Hopkins himself said that he studied that fight over and over, he dropped Vargas 5 times yet was only ahead by 3 points going into the final round before the final 3 kd's, he's an all time great, but he was never the most dominant fighter in the division, in fact there wasn't a dominant fighter in any of the divisions he fought in, except for 160, and that was Hopkins

Lets revisit the definition of not dominating fighter based on some Tito's highlights:

Welter weight champ from 1993 until 1999 when he decided moving to 154 after defeating De La Hoya to defeat an undefeated champ, former gold medalist (Reid), the reason why he did not fight Mosley or Forest. During his period at 147 he beat people like Campas (56-0), Carr (32-0), De La Hoya. With very few exeptions most of his opponents had good records, thus he fought the best of the division during his time. And we are not talking about heavy weights, there is quality in these divisions. We can argue that De La Hoya was a very close fight and perhaps De La Hoya could win (or could get KO) if he had more heart to fight and less mouth. To speak a little about gifts we can mention his "victory" over a Whitaker in a similar shape than the one that Tito clearly beat (don't want to mention other De La Hoya's gift such as Sturm).

From 1999 to 2001 fought De La Hoya (31-0), Reid (14-0), Thiam (33-1), Vargas (20-0), Joppy (32-1), Hopkins (39-2); 6 fight, 1 mandatory, 5 world champs and beat 4 of them, they had a combined record of 169 wins with only 4 losses. Not bad for a non-dominating fighter...

De La Hoya has never been one to really run his mouth and talk crap about his opponents, Trinidad did plenty of it and the person who tries to deny it, well i have plenty cut outs of his big fights in the past, not that most of it wasn't backed up but he talked plenty shit, no way in hell was DLH gonna get KO'd by Trinidad, if anything it would have been the other way around, Oscar/Tito wasn't a close fight, DLH won the first 9 straight, and there was no knockdowns, DLH beat Whitaker in a close fight, plenty pick that as a reasonable call, i had Oscar beating Whitaker 115-113, Sturm is the only really bad decision on his record, i had Sturm winning 115-113 or even 116-112, and that was already when DLH was out of his element at 160, do i need to remind you about what happened to Trinidad after the Joppy fight?
he got KO'd by B-Hop, beat a very weak Cherriffi (spelling?), retired, came back beat a Mayorga who had never fought above 147, then got schooled by Wright, then embarrassed he retired again, only to comeback and get schooled by an old merciful Jones, he could have KO'd Trinidad at any point after the 6th, again i'm not downplaying any of Trinidad's SUCCESS but he was never a Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Jones in ANY DIVISION he fought in

Now I can understand better; we are just talking about 2 different Trinidad because I don't recall that trash talking that you are mentioning here in his career. I believe me. I followed Felix "Tito" Trinidad career (the one from Puerto Rico). One thing is confidence and stating that he was going to win (what my Trinidad did) vs the talk crap that the Trinidad you are refering to did. I don't think you got my point, when I said that De La Hoya needed less mouth and more heart, I was refering to the fact that De La Hoya all the time said that he wanted the rematch, but never stepped in the ring with Tito again. I was not saying that De La Hoya was insulting anyone. If there are no possibility that Tito could KO him, just asked yourself why De La Hoya decided to start running a marathon instead of stopping and KO Tito

We can certainly differ in opinions of who won, Tito or De La Hoya. This is why this forum is so intersting where we can share different opinions and point of views. But if you think that De La Hoya won all first 9 rounds and I really can question this judgment as being partial. So it really does not mean anything to me.

And, no I had not forgot what happened after Joppys fight, that is why I am saying that from 1999 to 2001 Tito fought 5 world champs and beat 4 of them. Just tell how many boxers can say this? Just a few, right? But I can also remember what happened during Joppy's fight and all the previous fights.

Being an undefeated champ for 6 year before unifying at 147, then quickly move to the upper divisions to unify titles at 154 beating to undefeated champs, and crush a solid champ at 160 before being stopped... and this is non a dominating fighter... what a contradiction. But as I said we can have different opinions and this is why this is so interesting.

[TitoFan]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

Hey PR Punch... good to see you back in the forum. I 100% agree with your and Rican's points. And something Tito gets very little credit for, in my opinion...

It's easy to downplay Tito's wins over the likes of Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, Fernando Vargas... all undefeated at the time. Other people have beaten these guys, the detractors will claim. But how about giving Tito credit for putting the first "L" on their records? For fighting them when they were rising stars? At their most dangerous? When no one else wanted a piece of them? It's easy to say that "Oscar beat them too." Yeah... AFTER Tito had taken them apart. But some people conveniently forget that.

Yeah, Tito dominated 147. And would've dominated 154 for a long time also, but went up quickly to 160 and ran into Bernard Hopkins. He did destroy 160-pound champ William Joppy by KO before that, though.

[ElTerribleMorales]

It is clear Tito dominated the 147 division when he was there. No question about it. Look at his KO rate and look at the people he KO'd and how he ko'd them. Just because he did not dominate Oscar does not mean he did not dominate the division. And Ike Quartey? He was pretty good, but in my mind he gets dominated too, only because of his style. Oscar was so scared of Tito that he "boxed" and gained the nickname "Chicken" de la Hoya. And the reason Tito did not fight Mosley was simply a timing issue. Mosley fought at lower weights and Tito moved up while Mosley was moving up. And Tito ducked no one.

Agreed. Tito fought the best of his division while he was there. However, he could not fight guys like Mosley or Forest because he decided to move up in weight class to fight the best of the other divisions. Related to "Chicken" De La Hoya he was so scared of Tito's power that decided to run a marathon instead of fighting. After the fight it was very easy for him to start talking about a rematch and how bravely he was going to fight and never step in the ring with Tito. Watch De La Hoya's face when Tito touched his face with the left hand during the fourth round. I believe all of them, Mosley, De La Hoya, Quartey, Forest, etc had been great champs and had done a lot for boxing, but certainly Tito was more dominating at WW.

Even at 154 Tito looked so solid, sharp, and dominating, although it was a short stay to keep moving up in weight... and keep fighting the best

Hey PR Punch... good to see you back in the forum. I 100% agree with your and Rican's points. And something Tito gets very little credit for, in my opinion...

It's easy to downplay Tito's wins over the likes of Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, Fernando Vargas... all undefeated at the time. Other people have beaten these guys, the detractors will claim. But how about giving Tito credit for putting the first "L" on their records? For fighting them when they were rising stars? At their most dangerous? When no one else wanted a piece of them? It's easy to say that "Oscar beat them too." Yeah... AFTER Tito had taken them apart. But some people conveniently forget that.

Yeah, Tito dominated 147. And would've dominated 154 for a long time also, but went up quickly to 160 and ran into Bernard Hopkins. He did destroy 160-pound champ William Joppy by KO before that, though.

Vargas was at 154, and no one is trying to take anything away from Tito, just pointing out the fact that he was never the CLEAR CUT best at 147, DLH should of gotten the win, and Mosley and Quartey could of given him a hell of a fight where it would have been 50/50 at most, Trinidad never should have left 154, and IMO would of ended with a better career with possible fights against Forrest, Mosley, rematch with DLH, Santos, ect.