Manny Pacquao, How great is he???

[Mr140]

To be honest i have Pac rated in the same place i have Holyfeild rated. Some may disagree because of Holyfeild loses but thats mostly due to him staying in boxing to long. We while have to see if Pac while hang around past his prime like Holyfeild, Leonard and many others have done.

[leftylee]

I have to agree with Ice. He is a great fighter but somehwhat overrated. A lot of people are blinded by the De La Hoya and Hatton fights and forget what Marquez did to him.

He is by no means invincible or any shiit like that, I think Mayweather beats him. And there are also question marks over Cotto. I mean how much did Margarito take out of him. Look at how he looked in the Clottey fight. I don't think Pacquiao will gain massive amounts of great credit if he beats Cotto. Of course he'll gain a lot and so he should. But Mosely is pretty much the man at welterweight right now, and Cotto looks to be on the slide. And I think when Pacquiao beats Cotto (Which I think he will) people will raise the question of the catchweight at what they fought. IMO anyways.

[Mr140]

I dont think Cotto while be his best win be honest with you. His best wins and lose are some what of a question mark if you ask me. I thought he lost to both Mosley and Clottey and then to Margarito, Which we may never know unless they have rematch which may still happen i guess.

[killersheep]

I have to agree with Ice. He is a great fighter but somehwhat overrated. A lot of people are blinded by the De La Hoya and Hatton fights and forget what Marquez did to him.

He is by no means invincible or any shiit like that, I think Mayweather beats him. And there are also question marks over Cotto. I mean how much did Margarito take out of him. Look at how he looked in the Clottey fight. I don't think Pacquiao will gain massive amounts of great credit if he beats Cotto. Of course he'll gain a lot and so he should. But Mosely is pretty much the man at welterweight right now, and Cotto looks to be on the slide. And I think when Pacquiao beats Cotto (Which I think he will) people will raise the question of the catchweight at what they fought. IMO anyways.

The thing is how ever much you discount his resume, can you historically name 20 people who have better resumes with better success.

[leftylee]

I have to agree with Ice. He is a great fighter but somehwhat overrated. A lot of people are blinded by the De La Hoya and Hatton fights and forget what Marquez did to him.

He is by no means invincible or any shiit like that, I think Mayweather beats him. And there are also question marks over Cotto. I mean how much did Margarito take out of him. Look at how he looked in the Clottey fight. I don't think Pacquiao will gain massive amounts of great credit if he beats Cotto. Of course he'll gain a lot and so he should. But Mosely is pretty much the man at welterweight right now, and Cotto looks to be on the slide. And I think when Pacquiao beats Cotto (Which I think he will) people will raise the question of the catchweight at what they fought. IMO anyways.

The thing is how ever much you discount his resume, can you historically name 20 people who have better resumes with better success.

Your saying Pacquiao is in the best top 20 ever right now ? Or when he beats Cotto ?

[Spicoli]

Like every guy,where ever we have him now will likely be altered once he retires.Hindsights funny like that.I dont put to much stock in all of the p4p voodoo but it helps to judge a guy on what his opponents accomplish after they are defeated as well as where they realistically were in own careers at the time.It puts it all in full perspective.He's a great fighter,but to early to tell personally.

[generalbulldog]

Ring magazines top 80 fighters. This list was done in 2002. And here are the top 10.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker

Pac and Mayweather are great but even if they win their next bout and meets in the ring and whoever wins that bout, won't make the top 10 imo. Pac has questionable decisions in some of his biggest fights, particularly his bouts with Marquez, and Floyd has a reputation of ducking the best fighters in the WW division. They're not getting into that top 10 list, even if they win their next 2 or 3 superfights. Hell I don't even think 1 of them will make it in the top 20. Here's the list from 11-20.

11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello

The top 20 guys have a better resume than Floyd and Pac.

[blegit]

Ring magazines top 80 fighters. This list was done in 2002. And here are the top 10.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker

Pac and Mayweather are great but even if they win their next bout and meets in the ring and whoever wins that bout, won't make the top 10 imo. Pac has questionable decisions in some of his biggest fights, particularly his bouts with Marquez, and Floyd has a reputation of ducking the best fighters in the WW division. They're not getting into that top 10 list, even if they win their next 2 or 3 superfights. Hell I don't even think 1 of them will make it in the top 20. Here's the list from 11-20.

11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello

The top 20 guys have a better resume than Floyd and Pac.

I think this is a great breakdown. Pac and PBF are great talents and if we went by just that then we have top 10 arguments. But their resumes and what they've done during their tenures are not that of the top 20. I think we need to see more from Pac such as fighting some different styles, like some elite boxer movers, than just the straight in guys he's been lunching on. I think we need to see PBF fight a Mosley(not a Pac) or some top 3 welterweights. I think both these guys have extremely rare talent but they both also have been more selective than the all time greats on the fighters and/or conditions of the fights. Maybe they're not that concerned with it. But if they want all time 10 status then they should take a page out of Henry Armstrong's book.

[Pavlik]

HBO: Boxing: Fighters: Bio: MANNY PACQUIAO


MANNY PACQUIAO

Fighter Bio | Fighter Record | Discuss
updated August 25, 2009
At the age of 30, Manny is a 14-year pro—he made his debut at 16. He has been fighting at the top levels of competition and given some of the most sensational performances in the ring in recent years.

A certain future Hall of Famer, Manny was voted the "2008 Fighter of the Year" by the Boxing Writers Association of America. He also won the BWAA award in 2006, as well as The Ring's 2006 and 2008 "Fighter of the Year."

Manny is also recognized by most observers as the best fighter at any weight in the ring today—the best "Pound for Pound."

He is a national hero in his native Philippines—the entire country of over 96 million people comes to a virtual standstill to watch whenever he fights.

Manny is coming off of an electrifying second-round knockout win against former IBF jr. welterweight and WBA welterweight world champion Ricky Hatton in his last fight on May 2.

The Associated Press' Tim Dahlberg reported from ringside:

"He didn't just beat Hatton. Didn't just knock him out.

"He demolished a world class fighter who had never lost at his natural weight of 140 pounds, and he did it with such precision and ease that the talk afterward wasn't whether Pacquiao is the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, but whether he might be one of the best ever.

"A right hook—a punch most southpaws don't even have—started it all, dropping Hatton midway through the first round. A left cross that may be one of the greatest single punches ever thrown in a big fight ended it with a dramatic flourish.
Manny is a national hero in the Philippines—when he returns home after his fights, he is greeted by thousands of his cheering countrymen.



"When it was over, Hatton was sprawled motionless on his back in the center of the ring. Pacquiao and his corner were celebrating and the sellout crowd was trying to digest what they had just seen.

"Boxing has a new king in an unassuming fighter so good that he won his last four fights in four different weight classes."

Dan Rafael wrote on ESPN.com:

"With one thunderous left hand, Manny Pacquiao smashed his way into boxing immortality.

"Anyone doubt his pound-for-pound No. 1 perch now? Shoot, anyone doubt his place as one of boxing's best ever?

"The Filipino icon destroyed Ricky Hatton in two crushing rounds to make boxing history before 16,262 at the sold out and electric MGM Grand Garden Arena....

"It's something those of us who saw it shouldn't soon forget because it may be a long time until we see something like this again.

"In stunningly disposing of Hatton in ruthless fashion, Pacquiao matched Oscar De La Hoya's record of winning titles in six weight divisions. But more important, by adding Hatton's lineal junior welterweight championship to his growing collection, Pacquiao added a fourth lineal title, the first fighter to do that in boxing history. (Granted, there are more divisions now than there were back in the era of fighters such as Sugar Ray Robinson.)

"In plain terms, PacMan has been 'the man' in four divisions, the clear champion in a morass of titleholders at flyweight, featherweight, junior lightweight and now junior welterweight. Toss in belts at junior featherweight and lightweight—and wins against elite opponents—and you have a great fighter.

"It was almost laughable how easy it was for Pacquiao, who was fighting at junior welterweight for the first time in his career after dropping down from welterweight, where he fought in December and destroyed and retired De La Hoya.

"It also happened to be Pacquiao's fourth consecutive win in a fourth different division. It seems as though there is nothing he can't do."

In his previous fight on December 6, 2008, Manny scored the biggest win of his career—a dominant eighth-round TKO against former jr. lightweight, lightweight, super lightweight, welterweight, two-time super welterweight, and middleweight world champion Oscar De La Hoya—the biggest name in the sport over the last two decades and a certain future Hall of Famer himself.

Against De La Hoya, Manny was considered a huge underdog by most observers—and the fight a mismatch—because of their extreme difference in size. Boxing's conventional wisdom says that "A good big man beats a good small man."

After the fight, Dan Rafael wrote:

"Pacquiao stunningly administered a beat down of epic proportions. De La Hoya...was never in the fight for a moment.

"Pacquiao...won his third fight of the year in his third weight division, including winning two titles. The victory makes Pacquiao something of a modern-day Henry Armstrong, the all-time great pound-for-pound legend who over the course of 10 months from October, 1937, to August, 1938, claimed, in order, the world featherweight, welterweight and lightweight championships—when there were only eight divisions."

Manny had made his mark in boxing history, however, even before beating De La Hoya.

He has held world titles in four weight divisions—he won the WBC flyweight world title two weeks before his 20 birthday in December, 1998, the IBF jr. featherweight world title at 22 in 2001.

Manny won the WBC super featherweight world title in March, 2008, with a 12 round decision victory in the rematch against defending champion Juan Manuel Marquez. It was one of the most highly-anticipated fights of the year, and one of the most exciting.

He won the WBC lightweight world title in June, 2008, with a ninth-round TKO against defending champion David Diaz.

Manny's nickname is "PacMan." His webpage address is mannypacquiao.ph.

[josef4334]

I have to agree with Ice. He is a great fighter but somehwhat overrated. A lot of people are blinded by the De La Hoya and Hatton fights and forget what Marquez did to him.

He is by no means invincible or any shiit like that, I think Mayweather beats him. And there are also question marks over Cotto. I mean how much did Margarito take out of him. Look at how he looked in the Clottey fight. I don't think Pacquiao will gain massive amounts of great credit if he beats Cotto. Of course he'll gain a lot and so he should. But Mosely is pretty much the man at welterweight right now, and Cotto looks to be on the slide. And I think when Pacquiao beats Cotto (Which I think he will) people will raise the question of the catchweight at what they fought. IMO anyways.

which a lot of people including you thought he was gonna get slaughtered in those fights... the hating continues and so on.....

[Violent Demise]

I have to agree with Ice. He is a great fighter but somehwhat overrated. A lot of people are blinded by the De La Hoya and Hatton fights and forget what Marquez did to him.

He is by no means invincible or any shiit like that, I think Mayweather beats him. And there are also question marks over Cotto. I mean how much did Margarito take out of him. Look at how he looked in the Clottey fight. I don't think Pacquiao will gain massive amounts of great credit if he beats Cotto. Of course he'll gain a lot and so he should. But Mosely is pretty much the man at welterweight right now, and Cotto looks to be on the slide. And I think when Pacquiao beats Cotto (Which I think he will) people will raise the question of the catchweight at what they fought. IMO anyways.

which a lot of people including you thought he was gonna get slaughtered in those fights... the hating continues and so on.....

Nobody knew Oscar was that shot except for Freddie Roach. Roach called Oscar a "walking dead man". He himself said the fight would never of happened if he thought Oscar was any type of threat. Think about that for a second. How much credit you going to give Pac for beating a man who really couldn't fight any more? Hell Roach even went as far as saying he wouldn't get paid if Oscar won. He was that sure Oscar was finished.

[Dark Lord Al]

I think you have to give credit to pac for going through the divisions , and still carrying power and speed , opinions will always differ , especially when some love him and some hate him. Those who love or hate him really cant give and unbiased view. I do know what I'm talking about , take my hero Tommy Hearns for example , i would make excuses for him , and defend him in any argument , now however when older and wiser although still my favorite boxer ever , i can see both the good and bad in him as a fighter.
Its also like my view of Joe Calzaghe , because i hated him , i can never really give a balanced view , I'm always going to dwell on the bad parts of his makeup , and give little credit for the good points.
I do find it hard to understand why people hate PACMAN , he is exciting and is not a loudmouth, boxing in my opinion will be a worse place when Manny hangs up his gloves.

[yvonne]

[quote=Dark Lord Al;780921]I think you have to give credit to pac for going through the divisions , and still carrying power and speed , opinions will always differ , especially when some love him and some hate him. Those who love or hate him really cant give and unbiased view. I do know what I'm talking about , take my hero Tommy Hearns for example , i would make excuses for him , and defend him in any argument , now however when older and wiser although still my favorite boxer ever , i can see both the good and bad in him as a fighter.
Its also like my view of Joe Calzaghe , because i hated him , i can never really give a balanced view , I'm always going to dwell on the bad parts of his makeup , and give little credit for the good points.
I do find it hard to understand why people hate PACMAN , he is exciting and is not a loudmouth, boxing in my opinion will be a worse place when Manny hangs up his gloves.[/quote]

Exactly mate!Weather you like him or not he is just such a forceful game fighter who has'nt avoided anyone in his path.He's already got the well deserved status as a legend in the noble art world.We'll miss him when he eventually hangs up his gloves,soo weather you hate him or like him he deserve big respect.Boxing would be a lot boring now if he was'nt doing what he's doing now would it!

[Andre]

I think you have to give credit to pac for going through the divisions , and still carrying power and speed , opinions will always differ , especially when some love him and some hate him. Those who love or hate him really cant give and unbiased view. I do know what I'm talking about , take my hero Tommy Hearns for example , i would make excuses for him , and defend him in any argument , now however when older and wiser although still my favorite boxer ever , i can see both the good and bad in him as a fighter.
Its also like my view of Joe Calzaghe , because i hated him , i can never really give a balanced view , I'm always going to dwell on the bad parts of his makeup , and give little credit for the good points.
I do find it hard to understand why people hate PACMAN , he is exciting and is not a loudmouth, boxing in my opinion will be a worse place when Manny hangs up his gloves.

Al I dont think any real fight fans hate Pacman personally ,they do hate alot of his fans.

So they try to pull them all down a peg every chance they can get.

I can see why; every Pac related thread for months on the main board was designed as an alter for Manny so that his fans could feel even better about him in his greatness or that they are the greatest boxing fans in the world or fight predictors and know more about the whole sport because one of their countrymen is on the top (then they must all know better than anyone else).

No disrespect to the Manny fans we have kept here who are all of a more balanced and humble point than some others that we have already got rid of.

You know who you are.

[JazMerkin]

I think you have to give credit to pac for going through the divisions , and still carrying power and speed , opinions will always differ , especially when some love him and some hate him. Those who love or hate him really cant give and unbiased view. I do know what I'm talking about , take my hero Tommy Hearns for example , i would make excuses for him , and defend him in any argument , now however when older and wiser although still my favorite boxer ever , i can see both the good and bad in him as a fighter.
Its also like my view of Joe Calzaghe , because i hated him , i can never really give a balanced view , I'm always going to dwell on the bad parts of his makeup , and give little credit for the good points.
I do find it hard to understand why people hate PACMAN , he is exciting and is not a loudmouth, boxing in my opinion will be a worse place when Manny hangs up his gloves.

Al I dont think any real fight fans hate Pacman personally ,they do hate alot of his fans.

So they try to pull them all down a peg every chance they can get.

I can see why; every Pac related thread for months on the main board was designed as an alter for Manny so that his fans could feel even better about him in his greatness or that they are the greatest boxing fans in the world or fight predictors and know more about the whole sport because one of their countrymen is on the top (then they must all know better than anyone else).

No disrespect to the Manny fans we have kept here who are all of a more balanced and humble point than some others that we have already got rid of.

You know who you are.

Yep, C-Lo & OumaFan. That is all