Thoughts on computer judging

[cnote111]

The CONCEPT you discribed is fantastic IMO. I don't see it being impossible or unrealistic; however, the problem i see is the money involvement. Boxing is all about the money (which i always hate to admit out loud) and there would be nothing to gain for the business aspect. Not only would it cost X amount of dollars to run it, fix it, improve it, or run simple maintence jobs, but no one would benefit from this system except for the fightfans. Which boxing has proven time and time again that the fightfan doesn't matter as much as the business. Otherwise we would have much better matchups and worthwhile undercards.

Downfalls for the "business" of boxing:

1. Jobs lost from going down to 2 judges - aren't we already on a bad trend of technology replacing our workers. Which i feel the honest judges would be pushed back more then the corrupt.
2. Harder time fixing fights for certain fighters. - I'm sure the business fat cats would not like losing that judge that they have paid under the table
3. If the computer does happen to mess up and score a fight incorrectly like Malinaggi/Diaz what kind of uproar would that bring? Because if its a man, he can just stick to his story no matter how silly it is. A computer on the other will cause so much chaos if it messes something up.
4. Accusations of tampering - it would happen!
5. What if it breaks down in the 12th round


Personally i love it, but i think the business is what will keep it from happening. The capability is definitely there..


Good thread!

[killersheep]

I think a something that would help the problem would be a grading system, where judges judgements would be analyzed in a post fight way. Judges (such as the 118-110 for Diaz) would be given a reduction in grade. The grade would be directly tied to the judges pay and ability to actually sit in on Championship fights etc. That way there would be a punishment for poor judging and reward for fair judging. This should be easy to implement as all of the major sanctioning bodies have groups of people that vote for their rankings already, it would be easy enough for them to look the judging of the fights they see as well.

[OumaFan]

How can a computer tell which "power shots" were more effective, how can a computer tell if a guy is hurt, does a power punch count twice as much as a normal punch, 1/2 as much, three times as much, punch stats aren't everything and this is just a bad idea.

[OumaFan]

Anyway how many really bad decisions are there a year? At least among the elite level? Too many but probably less than you would think. There are more crappy scorecards but overall okay decisions than just outright bad decisions.

[Kev]

How can a computer tell which "power shots" were more effective, how can a computer tell if a guy is hurt, does a power punch count twice as much as a normal punch, 1/2 as much, three times as much, punch stats aren't everything and this is just a bad idea.

I completely agree with you Ouma, there would be flaws but honestly answer me this question.

How many fights on HBO have there been where compubox clearly favours one fight but the other guy wins the decision and it's NOT been a highly controversial decision?

Yes there are flaws but in purely practical terms my bet is that even compubox is far more accurate in terms of agreeing with the general perceptions of the majority than even the supposedly most competent judges.

We might get the odd decision where we think the guy who was second best according to compubox should have won the fight but you would NEVER get a wrong lopsided decision using this method, and 8 out of 10 times the result would be universally agreed as correct, with maybe 1 time debatable and the less than 1 in 10 wrong, which is a much better stat than the judges can manage.

[OumaFan]

How many times lately has their been a fight where a guy clearly won out on compubox but didn't get the decision (20 or so punches over 12 rounds I don't consider clearly)? Not a rhetorical question, my mind is going blank. In the case of Malignaggi-Diaz, such a tragedy of justice apparently, Malignaggi landed like 12 or so more total punches but Diaz landed more power shots, so what's the power shot to jab ratio of importance?

I just don't like it. I like grading better but for that it would help to have a national commission.

[Nameless]

The thing is that a computer induced judge would be all a new paradigm to us and it is a bit hard to imagine a sport we like getting such radical changing without being touched by it at least emotively; PErsonally, I am partly reluctant to it too because I would find it odd but somehow, I also know that a part of my judgment comes from the fact that it is an emotive reaction; Though I am highly rational, I tend to affection some things in daily life and to me, judges bring something more human to boxing and I don't like the idea that a machine created by men would judge men in their own sports.
Very rationally though, let's imagine that the geeks from IBM would be able to make a super computer program that would judge with a very very high accuracy a match and calculate the ringwise and such, why would we spit on it without any regard? without making this computer the main judge, we could perhaps think of a system (always admitting that this super program/computer exists) where he wouldn't be the sole judge but one of the judge or at least, a reference that the judge could consult in tight rounds where they have difficulties to make their mind, a kind of technological tool to their service, no?

[ElTerribleMorales]

How can a computer tell which "power shots" were more effective, how can a computer tell if a guy is hurt, does a power punch count twice as much as a normal punch, 1/2 as much, three times as much, punch stats aren't everything and this is just a bad idea.

imo there are ways to work around it, i mean there are sensors that can count the punches that land, and also sensors that can measure the force of each punch, but still i agree it's kinda a bit too sketchy, and too much crap to work around, i say bring instant replay then in another 50 yrs try a computer judge lol

[OumaFan]

I'm sure there are more and more problems with it that we just haven't thought of yet. How could it tell a 10-8 round with no KD's? Would you have to land like 55 power shots, oh well dude just landed 54, 10-9! How could it tell if a guy really deserved a 10-8 round if he had a KD but the other guy clearly won the rest of the round? At least it would know to give a guy a 10-6 round if he had three KD's Meh, I'm all for it.

[OumaFan]

BTW Bilbo I agreed with you on another thread, it really can happen There was like a two week period when I agreed with you on almost everything, it was uncanny and disturbing.

[Spicoli]

Don't think the problem is the human element but rather the disregard and pure lack of accountability.Not a fan of punch stats as they themselves are determined but human and not accurate.Fighter a may land more shots but that does not tell the story on their actual impact...this is not the amatuers and we dont even want to talk about the Olympic scoring.

[Kev]

BTW Bilbo I agreed with you on another thread, it really can happen There was like a two week period when I agreed with you on almost everything, it was uncanny and disturbing.

Cool was it a week where I posted loads of convincing evidence in support of biblical creationsim and also extolled the positive virtues of transexulism?

[ElTerribleMorales]

I'm sure there are more and more problems with it that we just haven't thought of yet. How could it tell a 10-8 round with no KD's? Would you have to land like 55 power shots, oh well dude just landed 54, 10-9! How could it tell if a guy really deserved a 10-8 round if he had a KD but the other guy clearly won the rest of the round? At least it would know to give a guy a 10-6 round if he had three KD's Meh, I'm all for it.

thing is if it's with sensors (cause i don't know any other way that it'd be) how the hell would it know if there's a kd in the first place?