Is Nonito Donaire really the 6th best boxer in the world??

[ElTerribleMorales]

Taeth is right.

The emphasis should be on skill not records. Some fighters never even get the chance to fight a "star" fighter (beat a "star" you fly into the P4P without fail) simply because they are avoidable (don't make money sense).

Weight-classes fluctuate constantly. One minute a particular division is dynamite the next it's average.

Guzman is the best current example. There's no way half the current top ten would even live with him. But he can't be ranked because he doesn't have a "great" or current "star" name on his resume.

Taeth is dead wrong imo. P4P should be based on acomplishment not personal preference and subjective analysis.

Guzman I believe is a top 10 fighter for sure, does he deserve to be p4p though? I don't think so, he hasn't beaten a marquee fighter yet, and he's had chances to put always finds a way to pull out of the fight.

Plus, and this is important, skills are only ONE part of a fighter assessment. Many better boxers have lost to 'inferior' fighters by being outworked, beaten up, outhustled, knocked out etc.

Just by being skilled doesn't mean you will win all your fights.

Christian Mijares anybody?

So a guy with obvious skill/talent that operates in a weaker division, or can not get the top names in his division, gets overlooked P4P by a tough fighter in a strong divison.

Carl Froch should have more claims of being P4P than Guzman because he beat a "star" in Taylor, and backed it up with a win over a possible "star" in Dirrell?

difference is that Guzman has never looked like he was gonna lose, where Froch was getting schooled for the first 9 rounds against Taylor, and flat out got a home town decision against Dirrell, another fight were he was horribly outboxed, same way you had Haye beating Valuev you should have had Dirrell beating Froch, it was the same fight only difference was in weight class

[Fenster]

Taeth is dead wrong imo. P4P should be based on acomplishment not personal preference and subjective analysis.

Guzman I believe is a top 10 fighter for sure, does he deserve to be p4p though? I don't think so, he hasn't beaten a marquee fighter yet, and he's had chances to put always finds a way to pull out of the fight.

Plus, and this is important, skills are only ONE part of a fighter assessment. Many better boxers have lost to 'inferior' fighters by being outworked, beaten up, outhustled, knocked out etc.

Just by being skilled doesn't mean you will win all your fights.

Christian Mijares anybody?

So a guy with obvious skill/talent that operates in a weaker division, or can not get the top names in his division, gets overlooked P4P by a tough fighter in a strong divison.

Carl Froch should have more claims of being P4P than Guzman because he beat a "star" in Taylor, and backed it up with a win over a possible "star" in Dirrell?

difference is that Guzman has never looked like he was gonna lose, where Froch was getting schooled for the first 9 rounds against Taylor, and flat out got a home town decision against Dirrell, another fight were he was horribly outboxed, same way you had Haye beating Valuev you should have had Dirrell beating Froch, it was the same fight only difference was in weight class

Right.. but Froch has a better record than Guzman, right? He has beat a "star." He is unbeaten.

So judging P4P by resumes Froch would beat Guzman?

What idiot what back Froch to beat Guzman in a P4P fight?

[Kev]

So a guy with obvious skill/talent that operates in a weaker division, or can not get the top names in his division, gets overlooked P4P by a tough fighter in a strong divison.

Carl Froch should have more claims of being P4P than Guzman because he beat a "star" in Taylor, and backed it up with a win over a possible "star" in Dirrell?

difference is that Guzman has never looked like he was gonna lose, where Froch was getting schooled for the first 9 rounds against Taylor, and flat out got a home town decision against Dirrell, another fight were he was horribly outboxed, same way you had Haye beating Valuev you should have had Dirrell beating Froch, it was the same fight only difference was in weight class

Right.. but Froch has a better record than Guzman, right? He has beat a "star." He is unbeaten.

So judging P4P by resumes Froch would beat Guzman?

What idiot what back Froch to beat Guzman in a P4P fight?

None of what your saying is relavent. Why not let's just give Guzman a world title belt then as he'd likely win it anyway?

Fighters have to EARN their p4p spot not just get it handed to them because you 'think' they would beat the guy who holds the title.

Right now Froch, whether you like him or not is the undefeated super middlweight world champ, with wins over Taylor, Pascal and Dirrell.

Guzman is currently beltless and in a mythical p4p matchup between the two would be going in as the challenger with Froch being the champ. Yes he might start betting favourite, but he doesn't win the belt, or the place in the rankings occupied by Froch until he BEATS him.

That's how sporting competition works my friend, athletes judged on their acomplishments not their 'potential'.

if that was the case Darren Sutherlan RIP would be the Olympic Gold Medallist and James De Gale would have gone home in the semi finals

[Fenster]

difference is that Guzman has never looked like he was gonna lose, where Froch was getting schooled for the first 9 rounds against Taylor, and flat out got a home town decision against Dirrell, another fight were he was horribly outboxed, same way you had Haye beating Valuev you should have had Dirrell beating Froch, it was the same fight only difference was in weight class

Right.. but Froch has a better record than Guzman, right? He has beat a "star." He is unbeaten.

So judging P4P by resumes Froch would beat Guzman?

What idiot what back Froch to beat Guzman in a P4P fight?

None of what your saying is relavent. Why not let's just give Guzman a world title belt then as he'd likely win it anyway?

Fighters have to EARN their p4p spot not just get it handed to them because you 'think' they would beat the guy who holds the title.

Right now Froch, whether you like him or not is the undefeated super middlweight world champ, with wins over Taylor, Pascal and Dirrell.

Guzman is currently beltless and in a mythical p4p matchup between the two would be going in as the challenger with Froch being the champ. Yes he might start betting favourite, but he doesn't win the belt, or the place in the rankings occupied by Froch until he BEATS him.

That's how sporting competition works my friend, athletes judged on their acomplishments not their 'potential'.

if that was the case Darren Sutherlan RIP would be the Olympic Gold Medallist and James De Gale would have gone home in the semi finals

P4P is about mythical match-ups with the size and weight leveled. That's the point of it. It is fantasy. You can't be proved right or wrong UNLESS the fighters actually fight.

If Wlad/Vitali took on Mayweather or Pac they'd kill them. The fight could not even happen, right?

But P4P (if they were the same size) Floyd or Pac would kill them, right?

That's why the emphasis should be on skill. Would you seriously back Froch against Guzman? Come on now..

[Kev]

Right.. but Froch has a better record than Guzman, right? He has beat a "star." He is unbeaten.

So judging P4P by resumes Froch would beat Guzman?

What idiot what back Froch to beat Guzman in a P4P fight?

None of what your saying is relavent. Why not let's just give Guzman a world title belt then as he'd likely win it anyway?

Fighters have to EARN their p4p spot not just get it handed to them because you 'think' they would beat the guy who holds the title.

Right now Froch, whether you like him or not is the undefeated super middlweight world champ, with wins over Taylor, Pascal and Dirrell.

Guzman is currently beltless and in a mythical p4p matchup between the two would be going in as the challenger with Froch being the champ. Yes he might start betting favourite, but he doesn't win the belt, or the place in the rankings occupied by Froch until he BEATS him.

That's how sporting competition works my friend, athletes judged on their acomplishments not their 'potential'.

if that was the case Darren Sutherlan RIP would be the Olympic Gold Medallist and James De Gale would have gone home in the semi finals

P4P is about mythical match-ups with the size and weight leveled. That's the point of it. It is fantasy. You can't be proved right or wrong UNLESS the fighters actually fight.

If Wlad/Vitali took on Mayweather or Pac they'd kill them. The fight could not even happen, right?

But P4P (if they were the same size) Floyd or Pac would kill them, right?

That's why the emphasis should be on skill. Would you seriously back Froch against Guzman? Come on now..

It's still a process based on strict selection criteria though.

As for Floyd/Manny being the same size as Wlad/Vitali, truthfully I don't know who would win. How could you possibly predict what would happen?

Is Floyd jumping up to 6 ft 7 here or is Vitali coming down to 5 ft 7?

Does Floyd keep the same speed at this mythical weight? If so does Vitali keep the same power and length of jab? See how this is going, it's impossible to compare really and therefore the emphasis is on acomplishments.

Heavyweights arn't traditionally included in p4p assesments anyway but if they were I guess Wlad and David Haye would both have to be considerd. As much as I hate the Hayemaker, he is the former undisputed cruiserweight king and now heavyweight champ of the world. On a p4p scale if heavyweights were included I'd probably have him at number 10 even though I think his opposition was garbage and I believe there are 10 other fighters at heavyweight who could starch him.

The fact is, he has achieved what he has acheived fair and square and should be rated accordingly.

[Fenster]

None of what your saying is relavent. Why not let's just give Guzman a world title belt then as he'd likely win it anyway?

Fighters have to EARN their p4p spot not just get it handed to them because you 'think' they would beat the guy who holds the title.

Right now Froch, whether you like him or not is the undefeated super middlweight world champ, with wins over Taylor, Pascal and Dirrell.

Guzman is currently beltless and in a mythical p4p matchup between the two would be going in as the challenger with Froch being the champ. Yes he might start betting favourite, but he doesn't win the belt, or the place in the rankings occupied by Froch until he BEATS him.

That's how sporting competition works my friend, athletes judged on their acomplishments not their 'potential'.

if that was the case Darren Sutherlan RIP would be the Olympic Gold Medallist and James De Gale would have gone home in the semi finals

P4P is about mythical match-ups with the size and weight leveled. That's the point of it. It is fantasy. You can't be proved right or wrong UNLESS the fighters actually fight.

If Wlad/Vitali took on Mayweather or Pac they'd kill them. The fight could not even happen, right?

But P4P (if they were the same size) Floyd or Pac would kill them, right?

That's why the emphasis should be on skill. Would you seriously back Froch against Guzman? Come on now..

It's still a process based on strict selection criteria though.

As for Floyd/Manny being the same size as Wlad/Vitali, truthfully I don't know who would win. How could you possibly predict what would happen?

Is Floyd jumping up to 6 ft 7 here or is Vitali coming down to 5 ft 7?

Does Floyd keep the same speed at this mythical weight? If so does Vitali keep the same power and length of jab? See how this is going, it's impossible to compare really and therefore the emphasis is on acomplishments.

Heavyweights arn't traditionally included in p4p assesments anyway but if they were I guess Wlad and David Haye would both have to be considerd. As much as I hate the Hayemaker, he is the former undisputed cruiserweight king and now heavyweight champ of the world. On a p4p scale if heavyweights were included I'd probably have him at number 10 even though I think his opposition was garbage and I believe there are 10 other fighters at heavyweight who could starch him.

The fact is, he has achieved what he has acheived fair and square and should be rated accordingly.

, it's flavour of the month. Look at The Ring's list (the most "credible"), beat a "star" you dive into the rankings.

Heavyweights aren't traditionally included because the heavyweight champ is meant to RULE over all other fighters from every division. P4P is to give smaller fighters a shot at competing with the king of boxing.

You don't know who would win mythical fights between Floyd/Pac-Vitali/Wlad?

How many fights have you seen where Floyd/Pac had HUGE weight/height/reach advantages over their opponents? They beat guys their own size, they move up weights to beat guys naturally bigger than them, they don't have the luxury of entering almost EVERY fight with a huge size ADVANTAGE like the Klits. The Klits don't need to be ranked P4P because they are already the rulers.

P4P is complete nonsense. You're trying to make it make sense. It doesn't.

[OumaFan]

I wouldn't have Donaire in my list but his win over Darchinyan is getting a little underrated by some, ELTerrible why would Paul Williams fighting Sergio Martinez at 160 be a bigger risk than Donaire fighting Darchinyan? Talk about a guy who hasn't had to beat any big names to become a name, the guy beat Alex Bunema, Alex Fucking Bunema! and all of a sudden he's a dangerman. LOL who hasn't beat Alex Bunema?

Bilbo I demand you become obsessed with Sergio Martinez. The guy's had a solid career but why has he all of a sudden become this badass on the back of a win over Bunema and an uninspired performance versus Cintron? Spam away.

I'm thinking of doing a P4P list, it will be 1/3 achievements, 1/3 perceived ability and 1/3 where they rank on my hate/love list. Wlad will be in the top 115. Somewhere.

[ElTerribleMorales]

P4P is about mythical match-ups with the size and weight leveled. That's the point of it. It is fantasy. You can't be proved right or wrong UNLESS the fighters actually fight.

If Wlad/Vitali took on Mayweather or Pac they'd kill them. The fight could not even happen, right?

But P4P (if they were the same size) Floyd or Pac would kill them, right?

That's why the emphasis should be on skill. Would you seriously back Froch against Guzman? Come on now..

It's still a process based on strict selection criteria though.

As for Floyd/Manny being the same size as Wlad/Vitali, truthfully I don't know who would win. How could you possibly predict what would happen?

Is Floyd jumping up to 6 ft 7 here or is Vitali coming down to 5 ft 7?

Does Floyd keep the same speed at this mythical weight? If so does Vitali keep the same power and length of jab? See how this is going, it's impossible to compare really and therefore the emphasis is on acomplishments.

Heavyweights arn't traditionally included in p4p assesments anyway but if they were I guess Wlad and David Haye would both have to be considerd. As much as I hate the Hayemaker, he is the former undisputed cruiserweight king and now heavyweight champ of the world. On a p4p scale if heavyweights were included I'd probably have him at number 10 even though I think his opposition was garbage and I believe there are 10 other fighters at heavyweight who could starch him.

The fact is, he has achieved what he has acheived fair and square and should be rated accordingly.

, it's flavour of the month. Look at The Ring's list (the most "credible"), beat a "star" you dive into the rankings.

Heavyweights aren't traditionally included because the heavyweight champ is meant to RULE over all other fighters from every division. P4P is to give smaller fighters a shot at competing with the king of boxing.

You don't know who would win mythical fights between Floyd/Pac-Vitali/Wlad?

How many fights have you seen where Floyd/Pac had HUGE weight/height/reach advantages over their opponents? They beat guys their own size, they move up weights to beat guys naturally bigger than them, they don't have the luxury of entering almost EVERY fight with a huge size ADVANTAGE like the Klits. The Klits don't need to be ranked P4P because they are already the rulers.

P4P is complete nonsense. You're trying to make it make sense. It doesn't.

thing is it could logically be put out, but favorites always come into play with most people and that's where conflict builds

agree though that it's mainly built on opinion