Is Nonito Donaire really the 6th best boxer in the world??

[OumaFan]

Who had Margarito P4P top ten when Williams beat him?

And if you just look at each case I think you'd see that Calderon moving all the way up to 122 would be much more impressive, Williams is more just a freak of nature. Actually now that I read that again that's a horrible comparison.

Not that I disagree with Williams being in the bottom half.

After he beats Martinez he should be, what, number 1?

[Kev]

Who had Margarito P4P top ten when Williams beat him?

And if you just look at each case I think you'd see that Calderon moving all the way up to 122 would be much more impressive, Williams is more just a freak of nature. Actually now that I read that again that's a horrible comparison.

Not that I disagree with Williams being in the bottom half.

After he beats Martinez he should be, what, number 1?

Like Vic Darchinyan Margarito crashed the top 5 p4p when he smoked Miguel Cotto AFTER Williams had alreadt beaten him.

In Darchinyan's case his post Donaire loss successes (wins over Mijares and Arce) were directly credited to Donaire who suddenly found himself propelled into the p4p on the back of Darchinyan's coat tails.

How does this work for the little guys but not for Williams?

Williams has won 3 world titles in two weight classes and has beaten a future hall of famer in another weight class. Donaire has never fought a world class fighter other than Darchinyan and not a single other world champ past or present is on his resume.

Who else in boxing has done so much recently ~(as Wiliams across 3 divisions) and isn't in the p4p?

[OumaFan]

1)I don't disagree with you about Williams, 2)that wasn't what you were saying and really wasn't an answer to my question and, 3)Darchinyan's post Donaire wins don't have asterisks by them.

[Kev]

Who had Margarito P4P top ten when Williams beat him?

And if you just look at each case I think you'd see that Calderon moving all the way up to 122 would be much more impressive, Williams is more just a freak of nature. Actually now that I read that again that's a horrible comparison.

Not that I disagree with Williams being in the bottom half.

After he beats Martinez he should be, what, number 1?

So you discriminate against a fighter's achievements because he is tall? What about Tommy Hearns, does his conquering of many weight classes not mean much either?

Every fighter has strengths and assets and wins fights accordingly.

If Williams can win in 3 weights from 147 to 160 a difference of 13 lbs why is that less impressive than Calderon who has moved up a whopping 3lbs in his career?

Williams weighs around 40 percent more than Calderon yet in terms of rising through the weight classes has gone 400 percent further, 13 lbs compared to 3lb.

He's done more than Calderon for sure, any sane man should be able to see this.

[OumaFan]

LOL he's beaten Margarito and an old Winky, you could argue he's done more than Calderon but its far from laughable. I don't love Calderon's resume either but lets not go nuts about Williams' yet just cause he's moved up. Not at least until he beats the dreaded Sergio Martinez.

Calderon would have to have moved up from 105 to 122 for that comparison to be valid and Williams has gone from 147 to 160. Williams was also a gigantic 147 pounder and is still a big middleweight while Calderon wasn't even big for 105 (is anybody I guess you could say) and would be laughably tiny at 122. Its not a great comparison.

[Kev]

LOL he's beaten Margarito and an old Winky, you could argue he's done more than Calderon but its far from laughable. I don't love Calderon's resume either but lets not go nuts about Williams' yet just cause he's moved up. Not at least until he beats the dreaded Sergio Martinez.

Calderon would have to have moved up from 105 to 122 for that comparison to be valid and Williams has gone from 147 to 160. Williams was also a gigantic 147 pounder and is still a big middleweight while Calderon wasn't even big for 105 (is anybody I guess you could say) and would be laughably tiny at 122. Its not a great comparison.

No three weight classes for Calderon would be from 104 to 112 lbs not 122.

I said about him beating R Marquez at superfly (where Marquez started out) not at super bantam.

I dont think Calderons claim to p4p is laughable at all, he deserved his spot imo, although his performances against Mayo may have dropped him.

But Williams absolutely deserves a p4p spot.

It seems people on here would rather Juan Guzman, who always pulls out of his big fights rather than face them should be ahead of Williams, who actually fights and BEATS his opponents.

It's a ridiculous arguement. Williams beat Margarito at 147, Phillips at 154 and Winky at 160.

He's in great current form and is now challenging Martinez at 154 again.

How does Guzman deserve to be ahead of him when he pulled out of his fight with Campbell at 24 hours notice?

[OumaFan]

OK I guess I didn't read your post that carefully I think you would agree though that Williams has the frame to move up in divisions more than some people, for example Calderon. I also wouldn't rule out him fighting at 112 one of these days.

Other than that I'm not sure what were arguing about. I would probably have Williams in the bottom half of P4P.

FWIW I'm not making any of those arguments, I used to be a huge fan of Guzman but he's a waste.

I thought Martinez was at 160?

[Kev]

OK I guess I didn't read your post that carefully I think you would agree though that Williams has the frame to move up in divisions more than some people, for example Calderon. I also wouldn't rule out him fighting at 112 one of these days.

Other than that I'm not sure what were arguing about. I would probably have Williams in the bottom half of P4P.

FWIW I'm not making any of those arguments, I used to be a huge fan of Guzman but he's a waste.

I thought Martinez was at 160?

Ah glad we almost agree. Yes I agree Williams has the frame but that in itself is impressive. It's not like he has a massive weight advantage going into these fights like Valuev, he manages to weight the same as the guys he's fighting despite being several inches taller than some, that's impressive and deserves credit rather than taking away credit from him.

Any fighter who can move through 3 weight classes and fight the best in those weight classes is p4p worthy imo regardless of how tall he is, providing he doesnt have a huge weight advantage like Nikolay Valuev.

Not sure what the weight is for the Martinez fight, I thought it was 154 but no idea.

By the way, you'll be glad to know I did moan a LOT when Martinez was on HBO fighting Bunema and Kellerman and Merchant were on his nutsacks telling us he was a p4p star and a great who should be fighting the mega fights.

I remember posting something along the lines of 'IF YOU THOUGHT HE WAS A GREAT AND A P4P STAR WHY HAVE YOU NEVER EVER ONCE MENTIONED HIM BEFORE IN HBO BROADCASTS EVER YOU CUUNNNNNTS!!!'

[OumaFan]

I think its at 160. From now on I'm definitely going to be obsessed with Sergio Martinez, I will do my best Bilbo impersonation.

[sumkalambay]

Ah FINALLY somebody else agrees with on this!. Nonito has done NOTHING to merit p4p status, he's beaten a guy in Darchinyan who is probably on the level of a Humberto Soto, a guy that Juan Guzman beat with ease.

Comparing the rest of Guzman's career to Donaires there is no comparison, Donaire has fought NOBODY!!! He almost got beat last time out by a 13-3-1 club fighter.

He's not even top 20 p4p, and will fall faster than you can say 'Mijares' when he actually fights somebody half decent.

As Johnny Perez has now beaten the man who beat the man who the man beat surely he should be p4p top 5 now right?

It's fucking ludicrous and I will tell you why this happens. It's positive discrimination in which the Ring Magazine openly gives benefits to the midgets in their p4p rankings.......

what a truly fuking awful post this is... darchinyan is on the level of humberto soto? what the hell are you talking about?

how many donaire/darchinyan fights have you seen? do you even follow these divisions?

lmao at rafael concepcion almost beating donaire. the dude came in with a significant weight advantage and donaire injured his hand in that fight. and donaire still won convincingly.

as for the thread, no i don't believe donaire is top 10 p4p.

[Kev]

Ah FINALLY somebody else agrees with on this!. Nonito has done NOTHING to merit p4p status, he's beaten a guy in Darchinyan who is probably on the level of a Humberto Soto, a guy that Juan Guzman beat with ease.

Comparing the rest of Guzman's career to Donaires there is no comparison, Donaire has fought NOBODY!!! He almost got beat last time out by a 13-3-1 club fighter.

He's not even top 20 p4p, and will fall faster than you can say 'Mijares' when he actually fights somebody half decent.

As Johnny Perez has now beaten the man who beat the man who the man beat surely he should be p4p top 5 now right?

It's fucking ludicrous and I will tell you why this happens. It's positive discrimination in which the Ring Magazine openly gives benefits to the midgets in their p4p rankings.......

what a truly fuking awful post this is... darchinyan is on the level of humberto soto? what the hell are you talking about?

how many donaire/darchinyan fights have you seen? do you even follow these divisions?

lmao at rafael concepcion almost beating donaire. the dude came in with a significant weight advantage and donaire injured his hand in that fight. and donaire still won convincingly.

as for the thread, no i don't believe donaire is top 10 p4p.

So you are suggesting Darchinyan is significantly better than Humberto Soto?

I disagree, as I suspect will most....

[mad_takamura]

umm yea they would, David Haye called out both Klitschkos and ran like a bitch for his dear life, Amir Khan called out everyone at 140 and is now scheduled to fight Salita, Mayweather said he would have dropped the Marquez fight, that he would pay Marquez to step down to fight Pacquiao, did that happen? no, nice try though, next

i applaud you. are you born with gamma rays?
it's easy to say a fighter avoided that, avoided who, but beyond that there's a lot of reasons. like running away especially after being challenged.now that's shameful.
anyway i know our arguments will definitely get redundant. all i would say is wait for those fights to happen, it will definitely come. if those fights will happen who do you think will be in a losing end? me or you? coz now donaire's going to be handled by top rank. those fights will come by popular demand. it's the rule of money.

did your dad tell you that as well? well my dad works in a looney bin and the schizophrenics told him that Donaire is gonna be taking on Hulk Hogan and Bugs Bunny in a triple threat hopscotch match....

immature reply..at least i became serious at the end of my post and you kept with your childish b.s.