Should we abolish the Royal family?

[Gandalf]

Every day of my life i get up at 5.30 in the morning to go to a job that pays way below what it should and having to hand over endless amounts of taxes

Doesnt bother me though. The royals were here long before me and they`ll be here long after me

Because a few hippy wannabe flag burners want a socialist pure society where everyone does different things yet we all live by the same means because it suits those concerned doesnt mean we all have to be of that persuasion.

Im at the bottom of the ladder yet still my beliefs far outweight my own personal gains

That's a weak philosophy.

It's not about socialism either. It's about what is right.

The Royal family has no relevance, do you not see this? They have huge homes and wealth and still they claim from the taxpayer. You earn fuck all per hour and they are still taxing you....and yet you think this is okay....after all they were here first?

Don't blame it on the hippies or the socialists...blame it on your own piss poor system and blame your monarchy as well. They are to blame. And yet you want the monarchy? They provide nothing.

As they have been for the last 600 years

Why all of a sudden is the time right now to abolish their power?

Now is as good a time as any. I suggested earlier that the end of WW2 would have been a good time.

Power? What fookin power? They have none? They are just mouthpieces for what the populace wants to hear.

[HattonTheHammer]

That's a weak philosophy.

It's not about socialism either. It's about what is right.

The Royal family has no relevance, do you not see this? They have huge homes and wealth and still they claim from the taxpayer. You earn fuck all per hour and they are still taxing you....and yet you think this is okay....after all they were here first?

Don't blame it on the hippies or the socialists...blame it on your own piss poor system and blame your monarchy as well. They are to blame. And yet you want the monarchy? They provide nothing.

As they have been for the last 600 years

Why all of a sudden is the time right now to abolish their power?

Now is as good a time as any. I suggested earlier that the end of WW2 would have been a good time.

Power? What fookin power? They have none? They are just mouthpieces for what the populace wants to hear.

They are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great country

No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.

Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals

[Gandalf]

As they have been for the last 600 years

Why all of a sudden is the time right now to abolish their power?

Now is as good a time as any. I suggested earlier that the end of WW2 would have been a good time.

Power? What fookin power? They have none? They are just mouthpieces for what the populace wants to hear.

They are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great country

No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.

Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals

What a crock of shit.

I know enough to know that countries without dumbass royal families do just fine. And you want to pretend it means something. I've spent plenty of time away from home learning, you don't learn things from idiots in the UK.

[HattonTheHammer]

Now is as good a time as any. I suggested earlier that the end of WW2 would have been a good time.

Power? What fookin power? They have none? They are just mouthpieces for what the populace wants to hear.

They are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great country

No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.

Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals

What a crock of shit.

I know enough to know that countries without dumbass royal families do just fine. And you want to pretend it means something. I've spent plenty of time away from home learning, you don't learn things from idiots in the UK.

Good for them

we havent all got paint from the same canvas have we?

What works for one country doesnt neccesarily for another!

[BIG H]

They were discussing this topic on Talksport last night

My opinion

1.) The Royals bring in a shed load of money from tourism... But that's a historical thing, it's about buildings and history, not about the actual people - who come here thinking they will actually see the queen France hasn't had a monarchy for centuries and Paris has far more tourists than London

2.) They do a lot for charity - Correct, but it's us that pay the money into the charities and we would still do it if Deavid Beckham was the face of the charity instead of Prince Charles

3.) It's our history! - So what, are the Royals throughout history really people to look up to and aspisr to? Rapists, theives, murderers!

4.) They have no executive powers are not elected - we need to get with the times and kick them out

[Wayne]

They are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great country

No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.

Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals

What a crock of shit.

I know enough to know that countries without dumbass royal families do just fine. And you want to pretend it means something. I've spent plenty of time away from home learning, you don't learn things from idiots in the UK.

Good for them

we havent all got paint from the same canvas have we?

What works for one country doesnt neccesarily for another!

HMH, what exactly does the Queen do for you? I might not agree with all my elected officials, but they are doing SOMETHING that makes an impact on my life and thus they draw a salary for it. But what does a figurehead with no power do for you that she should remain?

There are plenty of things that are tradition that don't have a place. For both our countries, at one point, slavery was tradition. And why all of a sudden should it be ended? Because there is never a better time than right now to upright the upended, to fix things that do not work. As a capitalist, I'm surprised you would be in support of something that doesn't make money. And you should never be satisfied with being on the bottom rung of the ladder because someone says so. Think about how hard you work for your money and how you give it away to someone who does nothing for you or anyone. How upside down is a society that values people who do nothing and devalues the working man?

[Gandalf]

They are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great country

No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.

Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals

What a crock of shit.

I know enough to know that countries without dumbass royal families do just fine. And you want to pretend it means something. I've spent plenty of time away from home learning, you don't learn things from idiots in the UK.

Good for them

we havent all got paint from the same canvas have we?

What works for one country doesnt neccesarily for another!

They are still inherently stupid arguments that you are making and I will pick you off whenever I can be bothered...which will be most likely tomorrow when I tuck into this thread proper.

[Kirkland Laing]

The problem with getting rid of them means you have to replace them. Right now the Queen does the job of President, she's our official head of state. If you look around at other heads of state, you see the former French prez Mitterand recently was found to have had his hand in the till for hundreds of millions to bring his influence to various legislation, the former president of Germany Kohl pocketed over two billion with a b the same way. The Prez of a third world country like Mexico got caught doing over a hundred mil of crooked lobbying for a Mexican telecom billionaire, that allowed the billionaire to gouge his customers. So the Queen as somebody who OKs legislation but doesn't get involved in it removes an entire layer of corruption from the very top of the country that would otherwise be there.

If we booted the royals tomorrow who would take over? The front runner would be war criminal Tony Blair, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of British soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis so that he'd be guranteed millions in post-number 10 earnings. He's already been caught taking money to lobby for companies in the Middle East through his office as official peace envoy out there. He's a total scumbag, and he'd be the most likely choice had we got an ongoing presidential system. And he's be living in Buckingham Palce too, and it'd still need its roof fixing. Tony wouldn't be paying that bill either.

So yes, they represent the class system and yes, they're originally German/Greek, but they actually save the average Brit money every year and they do bring in the odd tourist or two. Plus you have integrity and class in Buck House representing the country versus a hideous war criminal who should be in a cell in the Hague. No question that on balance they should stay where they are.

[ryanman]

As they have been for the last 600 years

Why all of a sudden is the time right now to abolish their power?

Now is as good a time as any. I suggested earlier that the end of WW2 would have been a good time.

Power? What fookin power? They have none? They are just mouthpieces for what the populace wants to hear.

They are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great country

No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.

Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals

How come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.

If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.

Cut off the head and the monster will fall.

It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.

[Andre]

I know we as men all have our own set of prized crown jewels , but really the London souvenir market would just plummet.

New business idea,

I want one of those dogs that nods its head in the back of the car except with a prince charles head on it, ears and all.

You'd sell heaps, England would be back on its feet in a week.

[Kirkland Laing]

Now is as good a time as any. I suggested earlier that the end of WW2 would have been a good time.

Power? What fookin power? They have none? They are just mouthpieces for what the populace wants to hear.

They are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great country

No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.

Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals

How come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.

If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.

Cut off the head and the monster will fall.

It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.

The monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.

[ryanman]

They are to millions the echelons of everything that represents this great country

No they dont neccesary throw their weight around like a dutch monarchy. Far from means they are useless.

Youve spent far too long away from our great isles. Come back to the light and you`ll realise this country cannot exist without our beloved royals

How come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.

If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.

Cut off the head and the monster will fall.

It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.

The monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.

The monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.

[Gandalf]

I was ranting towards the end because I was imbibing some of Winston Smith's 'Victory Gin'. Very toxic stuff, they call it Soju out here.

Kirkland has a point that there is room for the industrious working classes to get ahead if they try, but that still doesn't excuse having a Royal family as head of the state. They have so much land and wealth and this to me is unseemly. You know for a fact that the Duke of Edinburgh has never boiled a tin of soup in his life and has someone to vacuum each and every one of the rooms he lives in. And all this because of positions of inheritence?

It is wrong. I am of the position that we should all be born as equal to one another as possible, and a monarchy has no place in such a system. For anyone to defend what they represent is beyond me. The Queen should not be on coins either, I would much rather they have someone who has created something and become someone through their own hard work and dedication.

[Gandalf]

How come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.

If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.

Cut off the head and the monster will fall.

It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.

The monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.

The monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.

Most of their wealth has come from centuries of taking from society. It doesn't matter that today we only pay them a limited amount, their positions are set in stone and their wealth is so great that it accumulates through careful planning anyway. How many residences does the Royal family need? Who needs all the daft titles that they have?

Any decent member of the Royal family would come out and say "This monarchy system is a joke and a big con and I don't deserve any of it! I am giving all my assets to help provide drinking water to those in Africa who don't have it and I am going to work in the electronics store down the road. Don't hassle me because I just want a normal life". But no, these greedy people living their lives of undeserved oppulence will continue to take and represent all that is fundamentally wrong in any supposedly democratic system. There is no justification for the Royal family.

[HattonTheHammer]

How come this country could not exist without the royals? That doesn't make sense. Im not sure they are 'beloved' either.

If you believe in equality of opportunity hammer, as im sure you must, then how can you support something that is the living embodiment of INequality?
Don't you realise that the royal family represent the head of the class system?
Don't you realise that this class system is what serves to keep people 'in their place'? In the past the class system made it impossible for certain people, however willing or able they were, to achieve what they were capable of. In the modern day it does not make it impossible, but it still makes it far harder than it should be. It serves to place limits on what heights people can reach, not through fair means such as determination, ability and tenacity, but purely through the circumstances in which a person is BORN into. The class system may have been eroded, but it still exists.
As Miles has said, its not about socialism. For me it is about the simple fact that what a person can achieve in life should be based solely on factors such as ability, determination, tenacity, work ethic. It should NOT be based on the family to which you are born. As i have said, the royal family represent the head of this disgusting system.

Cut off the head and the monster will fall.

It is those that have least that the howls of protest should be loudest from. Sadly, it is those that have least that often are the most loyal. Like a beaten dog faithfully returning to its master.

The monarchy existing does nothing to prevent anybody from a lower class getting on in the world. Quite the opposite in fact. And what little remains of the class system doesn't prevent anybody from getting on either. If you're a bright hard-working person there's never been more opportunity than there is now to get on, much more than even twenty years ago, the existence of the monarchy hasn't prevented that from happening.

The monarchy may not directly prevent anyone from getting on in the world, but in my view it represents the system that STILL does prevent people from progressing.
You are right that there is more opportunitys now than ever before. But there still isnt equality of opportunity, only less inequality. I simply believe that the removal of the monarchy will in time help to see the ingrained class system further eroded. Even if it would only make a tiny difference i think it would be worth it as they serve very little purpose. Furthermore, im morally opposed to the idea that anybody is deserving of anything by virtue of 'birth right'. So even if they only cost taxpayers 00000.1p a year for me that would be 00000.1p too much.

You seriously believe there would be no class barriers if the royals were to cease to exist?

What about america. They dont live under a monarchy. They still live in divides of rich to middle income to poor a similar situation to ourselves.

Your thinking far too out of the box on this one. Capitalism was thrust upon this country it wasnt manufactured by this hierarchy that people like labour and the lib dems would have you believe!!