Berrio is the only one i can think of that Bute has beat.Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
Berrio is the only one i can think of that Bute has beat.
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
He's beaten Kabary Salem the man who dropepd Joe Calzaghe heavily, Lucian Bute is the only one to have ever stopped him. Sakio Bika a fighter who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle.Berrio is the only one i can think of that Bute has beat.
Lucian Bute also beat Sakio Bika easier than anyone else has. Lolenga Mock a fighter who dropped David Haye at Cruiserweight, Donny McCrary, Dingaan Thobela, Alejandro Berrio, William Joppy, Librado Andrade x2, Fulgencio Zuniga.
He's beaten some solid opposition, not the greatest but thats not a bad list at all. Im not saying he deserves the number 1 spot, but he has some underrated wins.
As for Bilbo hold on a minute, wern't you the one agreeing with me before that Lucian Bute did indeed beat the Librado Andrade legitmately ?
This was posted by you Bilbo, i can't find your other comments. But i know you agreed with me, i think its just because people are jumping on the Lucian Bute bandwagon, like with Nonito Donaire that you don't like that fighters get overrated so quickly. But people like me have known about Lucian Bute for ages, i can show you a thread from ages ago before the Alejandro Berrio fight.
Bilbo
I agree with you pretty much Ice. It would have been a robbery just to wave Bute off and call of the fight after he had it completely in the bag like that.
Andrade left his assualt too late imo. He should have got busy earlier and as for the long count, I guess if Andrade had been in the nuetral corner where he was supposed to be the ref wouldn't have sent him back there.
It may have been a bit pedantic from the ref but you can clearly see how when he's giving Bute the count he catches sight of Andrade in his peripheral vision and tells him to go back.
It may have been over the top but if he thought Andrade was making his way to the center of the ring he had to stop him.
And it's easy for us to judge but in the heat of the moment it all happens so fast and the ref isn't a machine incapable of making mistakes.
Last edited by ICB; 12-04-2009 at 10:31 AM.
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
Froch has some decent wins under his belt and a world title. Not for long... Mark my words. He will lose to Kessler and Abraham. Kessler will regain his belt after boxing the taste out out of Frochs mouth. I've just never thought Froch was that good.
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.He's beaten Kabary Salem the man who dropepd Joe Calzaghe heavily, Lucian Bute is the only one to have ever stopped him. Sakio Bika a fighter who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle.Berrio is the only one i can think of that Bute has beat.
Lucian Bute also beat Sakio Bika easier than anyone else has. Lolenga Mock a fighter who dropped David Haye at Cruiserweight, Donny McCrary, Dingaan Thobela, Alejandro Berrio, William Joppy, Librado Andrade x2, Fulgencio Zuniga.
He's beaten some solid opposition, not the greatest but thats not a bad list at all. Im not saying he deserves the number 1 spot, but he has some underrated wins.
As for Bilbo hold on a minute, wern't you the one agreeing with me before that Lucian Bute did indeed beat the Librado Andrade legitmately ?
This was posted by you Bilbo, i can't find your other comments. But i know you agreed with me, i think its just because people are jumping on the Lucian Bute bandwagon, like with Nonito Donaire that you don't like that fighters get overrated so quickly. But people like me have known about Lucian Bute for ages, i can show you a thread from ages ago before the Alejandro Berrio fight.
Bilbo
I agree with you pretty much Ice. It would have been a robbery just to wave Bute off and call of the fight after he had it completely in the bag like that.
Andrade left his assualt too late imo. He should have got busy earlier and as for the long count, I guess if Andrade had been in the nuetral corner where he was supposed to be the ref wouldn't have sent him back there.
It may have been a bit pedantic from the ref but you can clearly see how when he's giving Bute the count he catches sight of Andrade in his peripheral vision and tells him to go back.
It may have been over the top but if he thought Andrade was making his way to the center of the ring he had to stop him.
And it's easy for us to judge but in the heat of the moment it all happens so fast and the ref isn't a machine incapable of making mistakes.
It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!
It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.
Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?
Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.
I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.
Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he?
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
It isn't as crazy as you make it sound. How many top ten smw's has Ward or Kessler beat? 1 each. How many top ten smw's has Bute beat? 2.Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.He's beaten Kabary Salem the man who dropepd Joe Calzaghe heavily, Lucian Bute is the only one to have ever stopped him. Sakio Bika a fighter who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle.
Lucian Bute also beat Sakio Bika easier than anyone else has. Lolenga Mock a fighter who dropped David Haye at Cruiserweight, Donny McCrary, Dingaan Thobela, Alejandro Berrio, William Joppy, Librado Andrade x2, Fulgencio Zuniga.
He's beaten some solid opposition, not the greatest but thats not a bad list at all. Im not saying he deserves the number 1 spot, but he has some underrated wins.
As for Bilbo hold on a minute, wern't you the one agreeing with me before that Lucian Bute did indeed beat the Librado Andrade legitmately ?
This was posted by you Bilbo, i can't find your other comments. But i know you agreed with me, i think its just because people are jumping on the Lucian Bute bandwagon, like with Nonito Donaire that you don't like that fighters get overrated so quickly. But people like me have known about Lucian Bute for ages, i can show you a thread from ages ago before the Alejandro Berrio fight.
Bilbo
I agree with you pretty much Ice. It would have been a robbery just to wave Bute off and call of the fight after he had it completely in the bag like that.
Andrade left his assualt too late imo. He should have got busy earlier and as for the long count, I guess if Andrade had been in the nuetral corner where he was supposed to be the ref wouldn't have sent him back there.
It may have been a bit pedantic from the ref but you can clearly see how when he's giving Bute the count he catches sight of Andrade in his peripheral vision and tells him to go back.
It may have been over the top but if he thought Andrade was making his way to the center of the ring he had to stop him.
And it's easy for us to judge but in the heat of the moment it all happens so fast and the ref isn't a machine incapable of making mistakes.
It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!
It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.
Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?
Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.
I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.
Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he?
Bute won all ten rounds before losing the last two rounds and then given the doubt surrounding the win, he took a rematch with Andrade, and knocked him out, completely sparked him, something the #1 guy couldn't do.
I agree with Froch's wins, his resume is probably better than Bute's at this point, the only thing going against Froch is that his competition up until the Taylor fight was abysmal.
You didn't respond to my post earlier regarding Bute's best wins being better than Kessler's or at least as good.
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
It isn't as crazy as you make it sound. How many top ten smw's has Ward or Kessler beat? 1 each. How many top ten smw's has Bute beat? 2.Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.
It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!
It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.
Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?
Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.
I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.
Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he?
Bute won all ten rounds before losing the last two rounds and then given the doubt surrounding the win, he took a rematch with Andrade, and knocked him out, completely sparked him, something the #1 guy couldn't do.
I agree with Froch's wins, his resume is probably better than Bute's at this point, the only thing going against Froch is that his competition up until the Taylor fight was abysmal.
You didn't respond to my post earlier regarding Bute's best wins being better than Kessler's or at least as good.
Bute and Kessler have both beat more than 2 and 1 top ten fighers.
Bute
Bika
Berrio
Andrade
Kessler
Andrade
Beyer
Mundine
Siaca
Ward beat the number 1 so thats why he now is the number 1 imo.
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
Fair enough. What I meant was of current top ten super middleweights or top ten super middleweights of the last two years, Bute has wins over two and Kessler has wins over one. Kessler's position as number one never sat well with me because he lost his last major fight and only had the number one position because he lost it to a great in Calzaghe. When you look closer at his record, however, Kessler's resume isn't any better, and probably worse, than Bute's.It isn't as crazy as you make it sound. How many top ten smw's has Ward or Kessler beat? 1 each. How many top ten smw's has Bute beat? 2.
Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.
It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!
It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.
Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?
Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.
I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.
Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he?
Bute won all ten rounds before losing the last two rounds and then given the doubt surrounding the win, he took a rematch with Andrade, and knocked him out, completely sparked him, something the #1 guy couldn't do.
I agree with Froch's wins, his resume is probably better than Bute's at this point, the only thing going against Froch is that his competition up until the Taylor fight was abysmal.
You didn't respond to my post earlier regarding Bute's best wins being better than Kessler's or at least as good.
Bute and Kessler have both beat more than 2 and 1 top ten fighers.
Bute
Bika
Berrio
Andrade
Kessler
Andrade
Beyer
Mundine
Siaca
Ward beat the number 1 so thats why he now is the number 1 imo.
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
Sorry but that is ridiculous. Guys like Mundine, Beyer and Andrade were top 10, in fact top 3 or 4 but Kessler beat them all hence them not being in the top 10.Fair enough. What I meant was of current top ten super middleweights or top ten super middleweights of the last two years, Bute has wins over two and Kessler has wins over one. Kessler's position as number one never sat well with me because he lost his last major fight and only had the number one position because he lost it to a great in Calzaghe. When you look closer at his record, however, Kessler's resume isn't any better, and probably worse, than Bute's.
Bute and Kessler have both beat more than 2 and 1 top ten fighers.
Bute
Bika
Berrio
Andrade
Kessler
Andrade
Beyer
Mundine
Siaca
Ward beat the number 1 so thats why he now is the number 1 imo.
Bute has beaten Andrade, and that's it.
Bika, Joppy, Berrio etc are all behind wins over Mundine, Beyer, Dirrell, Pascal and Taylor.
Bute should be number three behind Ward at one, then Froch.
It's not even a debate in my mind. The only way one can make a case for Bute is if they go on pure subjectivity and say they felt Froch lost to Dirrell, and that Bute is better than Froch.
Ratings should be based on results and acomplishments not predictions and guesses.
As it stands, 1. Ward 2. Froch 3. Bute
Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
anWell Bilbo the difference is Lucian Bute, was fighting those two fighters you mentioned. When he was an upcoming fighter, unlike Joe Calzaghe who fought those two fighters at the twilight of his career.Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.He's beaten Kabary Salem the man who dropepd Joe Calzaghe heavily, Lucian Bute is the only one to have ever stopped him. Sakio Bika a fighter who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle.
Lucian Bute also beat Sakio Bika easier than anyone else has. Lolenga Mock a fighter who dropped David Haye at Cruiserweight, Donny McCrary, Dingaan Thobela, Alejandro Berrio, William Joppy, Librado Andrade x2, Fulgencio Zuniga.
He's beaten some solid opposition, not the greatest but thats not a bad list at all. Im not saying he deserves the number 1 spot, but he has some underrated wins.
As for Bilbo hold on a minute, wern't you the one agreeing with me before that Lucian Bute did indeed beat the Librado Andrade legitmately ?
This was posted by you Bilbo, i can't find your other comments. But i know you agreed with me, i think its just because people are jumping on the Lucian Bute bandwagon, like with Nonito Donaire that you don't like that fighters get overrated so quickly. But people like me have known about Lucian Bute for ages, i can show you a thread from ages ago before the Alejandro Berrio fight.
Bilbo
I agree with you pretty much Ice. It would have been a robbery just to wave Bute off and call of the fight after he had it completely in the bag like that.
Andrade left his assualt too late imo. He should have got busy earlier and as for the long count, I guess if Andrade had been in the nuetral corner where he was supposed to be the ref wouldn't have sent him back there.
It may have been a bit pedantic from the ref but you can clearly see how when he's giving Bute the count he catches sight of Andrade in his peripheral vision and tells him to go back.
It may have been over the top but if he thought Andrade was making his way to the center of the ring he had to stop him.
And it's easy for us to judge but in the heat of the moment it all happens so fast and the ref isn't a machine incapable of making mistakes.
It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!
It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.
Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?
Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.
I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.
Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he?
I never said Lucian Bute deserves to be number 1, i just think you underrate him somewhat. He does have some underrated wins, i agree maybe some people are jumping on the bandwagon too much.
But as i've said to you a few times. I've liked Lucian Bute for quite awhile now, so i don't over estimate his ability.
As for your last comment, well Joe Calzaghe was out on his feet against Chris Eubank in the final seconds. And had the fight have been 20 more seconds or so, i think Joe Calzaghe may have gone down but whatever, thats a debate for another day.
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Re: Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World
The Ring used to be the only reliable ranking system. But in the last few years they have been ranking more and more similar to the belt organizations. Too many times has the number 1 guy lost his ranking by a 3rd, 4th, and 5th ranked guy who beat a lesser opponent. Its not even arguable to give Bute the number 1 spot by beating a guy of much lesser ranking than himself. And of course they don't explain their reasons for doing so. But its a magazine and so its just opinionated and not necessary to take seriously. I lost respect for that magazine years ago.
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