Can anyone recommend a good biography of Vladimir Lenin?

[El Kabong]

Damn you, you good natured Canadian! You passed up my baiting you.


I understand you finding historical figures and events interesting, it's more the political views I don't understand, but that's a different topic for a different day.

[Nameless]

Damn you, you good natured Canadian! You passed up my baiting you.


I understand you finding historical figures and events interesting, it's more the political views I don't understand, but that's a different topic for a different day.

Every socialist system doesn't lead to despotism, especially as socialism and communism are far different though historically linked, personally, I am not against some kind of moderate socialism a bit like in Canada but I would never accept a communist or a hardcore socialist system neither. But you're right, we're good natured

[Gandalf]

Damn you, you good natured Canadian! You passed up my baiting you.


I understand you finding historical figures and events interesting, it's more the political views I don't understand, but that's a different topic for a different day.

Every socialist system doesn't lead to despotism, especially as socialism and communism are far different though historically linked, personally, I am not against some kind of moderate socialism a bit like in Canada but I would never accept a communist or a hardcore socialist system neither. But you're right, we're good natured

Socialism seems to be such a dirty word in the US media, particularly in the more right wing outlets. I have no idea why really, as a socialist model is something that can be beneficial for any society.

There are too many -isms about. I can understand the dislike of communism, totalitarianism and fascism (which appears to be what America is becoming drawn to), but socialism, as I interpret it, is a relatively benign -ism which can actually be a cause for a lot of good.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Damn you, you good natured Canadian! You passed up my baiting you.


I understand you finding historical figures and events interesting, it's more the political views I don't understand, but that's a different topic for a different day.

Every socialist system doesn't lead to despotism, especially as socialism and communism are far different though historically linked, personally, I am not against some kind of moderate socialism a bit like in Canada but I would never accept a communist or a hardcore socialist system neither. But you're right, we're good natured

Socialism seems to be such a dirty word in the US media, particularly in the more right wing outlets. I have no idea why really, as a socialist model is something that can be beneficial for any society.

There are too many -isms about. I can understand the dislike of communism, totalitarianism and fascism (which appears to be what America is becoming drawn to), but socialism, as I interpret it, is a relatively benign -ism which can actually be a cause for a lot of good.

yes but Miles you are stealing my money to give to welfare dodgers and the poor

[Gandalf]

Every socialist system doesn't lead to despotism, especially as socialism and communism are far different though historically linked, personally, I am not against some kind of moderate socialism a bit like in Canada but I would never accept a communist or a hardcore socialist system neither. But you're right, we're good natured

Socialism seems to be such a dirty word in the US media, particularly in the more right wing outlets. I have no idea why really, as a socialist model is something that can be beneficial for any society.

There are too many -isms about. I can understand the dislike of communism, totalitarianism and fascism (which appears to be what America is becoming drawn to), but socialism, as I interpret it, is a relatively benign -ism which can actually be a cause for a lot of good.

yes but Miles you are stealing my money to give to welfare dodgers and the poor

There are bigger active thieves in society than the poor. It's too easy to blame those that can't find work, those that bankrupt the entire system deserve a little more of the blame.

It's beyond me how anybody could ever accuse Obama of being a socialist. How warped has the word become?

[Nameless]

Socialism seems to be such a dirty word in the US media, particularly in the more right wing outlets. I have no idea why really, as a socialist model is something that can be beneficial for any society.

There are too many -isms about. I can understand the dislike of communism, totalitarianism and fascism (which appears to be what America is becoming drawn to), but socialism, as I interpret it, is a relatively benign -ism which can actually be a cause for a lot of good.

yes but Miles you are stealing my money to give to welfare dodgers and the poor

There are bigger active thieves in society than the poor. It's too easy to blame those that can't find work, those that bankrupt the entire system deserve a little more of the blame.

It's beyond me how anybody could ever accuse Obama of being a socialist. How warped has the word become?

As it has been said countless times, the left lost the battle of ideas in America a long long time ago. A socialist model as you stated is benign. However, most peoples in the US see it as something demonic leading to a pagan form of hardcore communism or something and when I hear most americans yelling against socialism, I understand how the propaganda worked well and how it did give a huge twist of sense to the real definition of socialism. For example, we have a social healthcare in Canada, we pay nothing and we can all be treated for free at the Hospital, no matter how rich or poor you are. The only thing we pay is a medical insurance of 50$ per years to cover almost any medicine you might have to take in the meantime, which cover most of the medicine from 100% to 80% of the global costs. I don't see how it is a bad thing and god knows that even if I am not rich, I am far from being part of those struggling to survive.

[Gandalf]

yes but Miles you are stealing my money to give to welfare dodgers and the poor

There are bigger active thieves in society than the poor. It's too easy to blame those that can't find work, those that bankrupt the entire system deserve a little more of the blame.

It's beyond me how anybody could ever accuse Obama of being a socialist. How warped has the word become?

As it has been said countless times, the left lost the battle of ideas in America a long long time ago. A socialist model as you stated is benign. However, most peoples in the US see it as something demonic leading to a pagan form of hardcore communism or something and when I hear most americans yelling against socialism, I understand how the propaganda worked well and how it did give a huge twist of sense to the real definition of socialism. For example, we have a social healthcare in Canada, we pay nothing and we can all be treated for free at the Hospital, no matter how rich or poor you are. The only thing we pay is a medical insurance of 50$ per years to cover almost any medicine you might have to take in the meantime, which cover most of the medicine from 100% to 80% of the global costs. I don't see how it is a bad thing and god knows that even if I am not rich, I am far from being part of those struggling to survive.

You don't need to tell me all this. I'm on your side, I know the facts.

[Nameless]

There are bigger active thieves in society than the poor. It's too easy to blame those that can't find work, those that bankrupt the entire system deserve a little more of the blame.

It's beyond me how anybody could ever accuse Obama of being a socialist. How warped has the word become?

As it has been said countless times, the left lost the battle of ideas in America a long long time ago. A socialist model as you stated is benign. However, most peoples in the US see it as something demonic leading to a pagan form of hardcore communism or something and when I hear most americans yelling against socialism, I understand how the propaganda worked well and how it did give a huge twist of sense to the real definition of socialism. For example, we have a social healthcare in Canada, we pay nothing and we can all be treated for free at the Hospital, no matter how rich or poor you are. The only thing we pay is a medical insurance of 50$ per years to cover almost any medicine you might have to take in the meantime, which cover most of the medicine from 100% to 80% of the global costs. I don't see how it is a bad thing and god knows that even if I am not rich, I am far from being part of those struggling to survive.

You don't need to tell me all this. I'm on your side, I know the facts.

Hehe, yeah, I know, but it was more of a general statement for all those who are interested to the conversation than a simple and single answer to your post

[Cortez The Killer]

what's Lyles excuse?

For what? Arguing with people who are wrong or enjoying freedom, liberty, and a better socioeconomic status than all of the average people living in communist countries?

Why does everyone being LOWERED to the same level sound so good to some people

I don't mean to derail this fine thread, but in my personal construction of socialism its about everyone having something, not about everyone having the same standard. I'm all for competition and wealth etc., but I'm also for raising the quality of life for those in society who have the least. That's all I'll say on the subject because I don't want to spark a debate here.

Optimistic much

Trust me, there are enough people who take advantage of the system in place in America already. There are plenty of people, able bodied, lazy adults, who get by without having ever done a day's work in their life.

They take advantage of the system, get multiple welfare checks a month, etc...all of which people who are working have to pay for. The richest people in America already support the country with the taxes they pay. Granted, it still gets a bit gluttonous near the top, but the rich are always going to remain rich because the more you raise their taxes the more ways they will find to divert money so they wont have to pay them.

Communism is a "noble" ideology but has zero real world application unless run by a dictator or totalitarian government, which will always end up in extreme corruption and a high level of atrocities.

No system is perfect, but America's faux-democracy is pretty close to the top any way you look at it.

[CFH]

For what? Arguing with people who are wrong or enjoying freedom, liberty, and a better socioeconomic status than all of the average people living in communist countries?

Why does everyone being LOWERED to the same level sound so good to some people

I don't mean to derail this fine thread, but in my personal construction of socialism its about everyone having something, not about everyone having the same standard. I'm all for competition and wealth etc., but I'm also for raising the quality of life for those in society who have the least. That's all I'll say on the subject because I don't want to spark a debate here.

Optimistic much

Trust me, there are enough people who take advantage of the system in place in America already. There are plenty of people, able bodied, lazy adults, who get by without having ever done a day's work in their life.

They take advantage of the system, get multiple welfare checks a month, etc...all of which people who are working have to pay for. The richest people in America already support the country with the taxes they pay. Granted, it still gets a bit gluttonous near the top, but the rich are always going to remain rich because the more you raise their taxes the more ways they will find to divert money so they wont have to pay them.

Communism is a "noble" ideology but has zero real world application unless run by a dictator or totalitarian government, which will always end up in extreme corruption and a high level of atrocities.

No system is perfect, but America's faux-democracy is pretty close to the top any way you look at it.

I'll say the same thing to you that I said to Lyle. I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree with what you wrote. However, I have no wish to engage in a protracted argument on here. Not because I do not feel strongly about my beliefs or because I cannot intelligently articulate them, but because I find these types of argument on here to be frustrating and redundant.

I would also like to state that I am not, nor have I ever been, a communist and I do not believe in the practicality of the communist ideology. My political beliefs, though they are diverse, generally speaking are those of a social democrat and I feel this is an easily defensible ideology which, in some instances, has been proven extremely beneficial. I doubt you have any familiarity with the Canadian political system, but to put them in the local (Canadian) political context, I most frequently vote for the NDP. I hope that contextualized things.

[Cortez The Killer]

I don't mean to derail this fine thread, but in my personal construction of socialism its about everyone having something, not about everyone having the same standard. I'm all for competition and wealth etc., but I'm also for raising the quality of life for those in society who have the least. That's all I'll say on the subject because I don't want to spark a debate here.

Optimistic much

Trust me, there are enough people who take advantage of the system in place in America already. There are plenty of people, able bodied, lazy adults, who get by without having ever done a day's work in their life.

They take advantage of the system, get multiple welfare checks a month, etc...all of which people who are working have to pay for. The richest people in America already support the country with the taxes they pay. Granted, it still gets a bit gluttonous near the top, but the rich are always going to remain rich because the more you raise their taxes the more ways they will find to divert money so they wont have to pay them.

Communism is a "noble" ideology but has zero real world application unless run by a dictator or totalitarian government, which will always end up in extreme corruption and a high level of atrocities.

No system is perfect, but America's faux-democracy is pretty close to the top any way you look at it.

I'll say the same thing to you that I said to Lyle. I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree with what you wrote. However, I have no wish to engage in a protracted argument on here. Not because I do not feel strongly about my beliefs or because I cannot intelligently articulate them, but because I find these types of argument on here to be frustrating and redundant.

I would also like to state that I am not, nor have I ever been, a communist and I do not believe in the practicality of the communist ideology. My political beliefs, though they are diverse, generally speaking are those of a social democrat and I feel this is an easily defensible ideology which, in some instances, has been proven extremely beneficial. I doubt you have any familiarity with the Canadian political system, but to put them in the local (Canadian) political context, I most frequently vote for the NDP. I hope that contextualized things.

Point taken. And no, I have zero familiarity with Canadian politics.

Anyways, I think politics are a headache to discuss/think about anyways. In the end it all comes down to human nature, which makes any system fallible.

All i know is that at the end of the day I don't like seeing 20 percent of my paycheck go to taxes....and 19 of that 20 percent is going to be squandered.

When it comes to politics im neither left nor right.. just a realist and a cynic