Quote Originally Posted by ICB View Post

Actually Muhammad Ali had 6 gift decisions.

Ken Norton x3
Doug Jones
Earnie Shavers
Jimmy Young

I think he lost 4 of the decisions i listed there, with one draw to Doug Jones.

I also heard his fight with Alfredo Evangelista was close aswell, although i've only seen bits and pieces of it.
Ali most definitely did not get 3 gifts against Norton, seeing as Norton WON the first fight. Need to work on your maths Ice.

I do think Norton won 2 out of 3 (although I also thought he edged Larry Holmes), but I think Ali beat Jones, Shavers & Young. He's not a complete shoe-in for greatest HW of all time, although he does just edge Louis for me.

Quote Originally Posted by Zilla
And I think Wlad hits harder than Foreman and was more athletic. Lamon Brewster was a high quality 'little' man and there was no reason for him to win their first fight. He had to go through a hell most fighters couldn't have.
No way does Wlad hit harder than Foreman. He hits hard, a lot harder than many give him credit for, but not harder than Foreman. Lamon Brewster was not a high quality 'little' man for me, but even if he was Joe Frazier was an ATG 'little' man. The last sentence is just stupid if you've ever seen Frazier's fights, particularly the Thrilla In Manilla, where he fought blind. Frazier defined heart, if Brewster could do it, Smokin' Joe would have done it as a doddle.

Quote Originally Posted by Lyle
Wladimir is probably the most technically skilled fighter out there right now not named Mayweather.
No, he's not Lyle. He's very good, certainly much, much better than some of the haters on here give him credit for, but aside from Mayweather, there's Bernard Hopkins, Juan Manuel Marquez, Chad Dawson, Ivan Calderon, Hozumi Hasegawa & Tim Bradley, all of whom you could make strong arguments for being more technically skilled & there's at least a couple who are dead certs on that.