Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao

[Althugz]

[quote=Mar;841810]Both guys have great resumes....quote]

I think that's the bottom line really..and as CFH said, Manny will certainly go down as one of the ATG's. I don't really wanna shit on either fighters resume, just trying to get into the mind of certain fans and the way they think. That's what led me to compare.

Guys, do we have to go back to talking about the drug testing lol You know we got plenty of time to talk about that shit in a few more months again

[eagle]

CFH, I agree with you there. I don't consider Manny as an average fighter as much as I also don't consider Floyd an average boxer. I just posted the question to those who, as generalbulldog said, deem him as inferior in boxing and got fighters that were shot. Why did the undefeated Floyd demand for a rigid blood test? Where then did the suspicion of PED use came from?
And to answer eagle's question, just because Manny was filmed taking the blood test, that doesn't necessarily mean that he liked it. It was required of him by the boxing commission.

Oh so now he gave up 40 million cos he 'didnt like' blood tests? So that dont seem at all suspicious in anyway to you?

You can also turn your statement around and say that Floyd gave up on 40 million cos he didn't like Manny wanting for the blood test to be taken 24 days before the fight. He gave up on the 40 million because of the 10 days difference (24 days vs 14 days). And I have already answered your second question when I wrote a few comments back that "The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion".

Now my question to you eagle is: Are you one of the posters who does not believe Manny has an impressive accomplishment? If you are, then I am just curious as to what your take is on my question above. If you are not, then that question is not for you.

And miron_lang, that's a nice list that you have but I won't put David Diaz in there. I would consider Pacquiao's win over dela Hoya as more spectacular than that. Although people would say that Oscar was a shell of himself and weight drained, Manny jumped 2 weight divisions and was a heavy underdog when he faced him. Whether it's worthy to be placed in that list is debatable.

Floyd didnt run away from anything as he was still open for negotiations when Pac went and signed up the Clottey fight. So your above statement is null and void.
I never ever said Manny was not a top and accomplished fighter. He has many great wins, but i do believe they are all suspicious now due to his recent behaviour.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Oh so now he gave up 40 million cos he 'didnt like' blood tests? So that dont seem at all suspicious in anyway to you?

You can also turn your statement around and say that Floyd gave up on 40 million cos he didn't like Manny wanting for the blood test to be taken 24 days before the fight. He gave up on the 40 million because of the 10 days difference (24 days vs 14 days). And I have already answered your second question when I wrote a few comments back that "The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion".

Now my question to you eagle is: Are you one of the posters who does not believe Manny has an impressive accomplishment? If you are, then I am just curious as to what your take is on my question above. If you are not, then that question is not for you.

And miron_lang, that's a nice list that you have but I won't put David Diaz in there. I would consider Pacquiao's win over dela Hoya as more spectacular than that. Although people would say that Oscar was a shell of himself and weight drained, Manny jumped 2 weight divisions and was a heavy underdog when he faced him. Whether it's worthy to be placed in that list is debatable.

Floyd didnt run away from anything as he was still open for negotiations when Pac went and signed up the Clottey fight. So your above statement is null and void.
I never ever said Manny was not a top and accomplished fighter. He has many great wins, but i do believe they are all suspicious now due to his recent behaviour.

With regards to the Mayweather-Pacquiao negotiations, please read this link:

Paula Duffy: Pacquiao-Mayweather Arbitrator Says Both Sides Have Lied about Arbitration

They had a disagreement and needed to go to arbitration to save the negotiation. In the end, the parties could not agree on a testing protocol acceptable to all. The arbitration failed so what more is there to discuss?

You never ever said Manny was not a top and accomplished fighter but did you ever say that he is a top and accomplished fighter?

[eagle]

You can also turn your statement around and say that Floyd gave up on 40 million cos he didn't like Manny wanting for the blood test to be taken 24 days before the fight. He gave up on the 40 million because of the 10 days difference (24 days vs 14 days). And I have already answered your second question when I wrote a few comments back that "The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion".

Now my question to you eagle is: Are you one of the posters who does not believe Manny has an impressive accomplishment? If you are, then I am just curious as to what your take is on my question above. If you are not, then that question is not for you.

And miron_lang, that's a nice list that you have but I won't put David Diaz in there. I would consider Pacquiao's win over dela Hoya as more spectacular than that. Although people would say that Oscar was a shell of himself and weight drained, Manny jumped 2 weight divisions and was a heavy underdog when he faced him. Whether it's worthy to be placed in that list is debatable.

Floyd didnt run away from anything as he was still open for negotiations when Pac went and signed up the Clottey fight. So your above statement is null and void.
I never ever said Manny was not a top and accomplished fighter. He has many great wins, but i do believe they are all suspicious now due to his recent behaviour.

With regards to the Mayweather-Pacquiao negotiations, please read this link:

Paula Duffy: Pacquiao-Mayweather Arbitrator Says Both Sides Have Lied about Arbitration

They had a disagreement and needed to go to arbitration to save the negotiation. In the end, the parties could not agree on a testing protocol acceptable to all. The arbitration failed so what more is there to discuss? You never ever said Manny was not a top and accomplished fighter but did you ever say that he is a top and accomplished fighter?

Here u go. Manny Pac has the best resume in boxing today. The only thing stopping him being a genuine ATG in my eyes is the drug taking suspicions.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Floyd didnt run away from anything as he was still open for negotiations when Pac went and signed up the Clottey fight. So your above statement is null and void.
I never ever said Manny was not a top and accomplished fighter. He has many great wins, but i do believe they are all suspicious now due to his recent behaviour.

With regards to the Mayweather-Pacquiao negotiations, please read this link:

Paula Duffy: Pacquiao-Mayweather Arbitrator Says Both Sides Have Lied about Arbitration

They had a disagreement and needed to go to arbitration to save the negotiation. In the end, the parties could not agree on a testing protocol acceptable to all. The arbitration failed so what more is there to discuss? You never ever said Manny was not a top and accomplished fighter but did you ever say that he is a top and accomplished fighter?

Here u go. Manny Pac has the best resume in boxing today. The only thing stopping him being a genuine ATG in my eyes is the drug taking suspicions.

Okey, so my initial question does not apply to you.

I am surprise that our exchange of comments has been civil. I have read some of your comments with regards to other posters and you can be brutal.

[eagle]

With regards to the Mayweather-Pacquiao negotiations, please read this link:

Paula Duffy: Pacquiao-Mayweather Arbitrator Says Both Sides Have Lied about Arbitration

They had a disagreement and needed to go to arbitration to save the negotiation. In the end, the parties could not agree on a testing protocol acceptable to all. The arbitration failed so what more is there to discuss? You never ever said Manny was not a top and accomplished fighter but did you ever say that he is a top and accomplished fighter?

Here u go. Manny Pac has the best resume in boxing today. The only thing stopping him being a genuine ATG in my eyes is the drug taking suspicions.

Okey, so my initial question does not apply to you.

I am surprise that our exchange of comments has been civil. I have read some of your comments with regards to other posters and you can be brutal.

Did u read the nonsense they come out with though? Unfortunately no matter how great Pac is, he has the worst supporters in boxing. They think they are defending him but in reality they are turning other fans against him thru their one eyed fanboyism.

[JJson]

I may have used the wrong word. It may be justifiable to request for a blood test to clean up the sport but why now when the fighter that Floyd is facing is deemed inferior to him by a number of posters in this forum. Manny is the underdog. I feel that it's like Lebron James demanding blood test from Vince Carter before they play ball. It may be valid to request for the blood test if there is suspicion that the opponent is using but if the opponent is not seen as someone exceptional, then where did the suspicion come from? And do you think it was to bring a greater level of fairness to the competition? But there was no level of fairness when he fought Marquez, was there?

I am not condoning Manny's response to the demand. He could have responded better. I am just posting a question with regards to the demand that started the disagreement. The motive for Floyd's demand is suspicious. The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion.

I find your response to be very honest, and your musings to be very thoughtful and inquisitive. This suggest that you are indeed exploring avenues of probabilities rather than devilizing one fighter and angelizing another. And please forgive the liberty I take with the English language, I hold to the tenet that once you get my meaning the verbalizing of some nouns is excusable.

However, I take issue with your comment that the motive for Floyd's demand is suspicious. What does FLoyd stand to gain from this demand? When the motive of someone's actions come under suspicion, it is generally presumed that they stand to gain something from that action. If not, motive becomes redundant. That is why it is no longer an essential element in the judicial presentation of cases before the court, and is mostly an investigative query. So again, what does Floyd stand to gain by demanding that both he and his opponent be subjected to a regimen of random drug testing? It would seem to me, that you are just flinging out a preponderance of probabilities in pursuit of something that will stick. And that tends to vitiate the good sense that inundate the remainder of your comment.

The same people who are claiming that Mosely is inferior to Floyd, a few pages and threads away were claiming that Floyd was afraid of him. That kind of convenient shifting certainly is not acceptable as a yardstick in terms of Shane Mosley's current ability. He just destroyed someone who many of these pundits were accusing Floyd of ducking quite recently. I can't remember anyone making that observation when Bernard Hopkins signed to fight Kelly Pavlik.

Marquez has been consistent in his abilities throughout his career. The correct analogy in terms of PBF consistency has to be Shane Mosely, and he has demanded, and Shane has acceded to, a regimen of random drug testing throughout their preparation for the fight. Look, I have no problem with criticism of PBF or the fact that many believe that Mosely will beat him. But like I said, I get cognitive dissonant with a conversational premise that argues against increased scrutiny of substances fighters are putting into their bodies. In a sport where we have seen many fighters dying from blows they received in the ring, one would have expected universal support for what Mayweather initiated. That it did not, for me, is further evidence that in boxing, like so many other areas of interaction in the US, wrong and right has more to do with the personalities involved, than with the situational issue under discussion.

They don't like Floyd. They do not like his braggadocio personality. Many of them have been anticipating the enjoyment of seeing him being beaten to a pulp and silenced for more than a decade. Unfortunately for them, none of the hopefuls have been up to the task. Manny, displaying a phenomenal increase in power and ability over the past couple of years seem like the best chance for realizing a seemingly unreachable dream. How dare Floyd Mayweather Junior rob them of this expectant thrill by introducing a condition that would unequivocally level the playing field, and thus risk denying them something for which they have been yearning for decades? How else can one explain the flights of irrational and unreasonable fancies being introduced into the discussion? If you ask me, it is the motives behind these that should have aroused your suspicions.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

I may have used the wrong word. It may be justifiable to request for a blood test to clean up the sport but why now when the fighter that Floyd is facing is deemed inferior to him by a number of posters in this forum. Manny is the underdog. I feel that it's like Lebron James demanding blood test from Vince Carter before they play ball. It may be valid to request for the blood test if there is suspicion that the opponent is using but if the opponent is not seen as someone exceptional, then where did the suspicion come from? And do you think it was to bring a greater level of fairness to the competition? But there was no level of fairness when he fought Marquez, was there?

I am not condoning Manny's response to the demand. He could have responded better. I am just posting a question with regards to the demand that started the disagreement. The motive for Floyd's demand is suspicious. The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion.

I find your response to be very honest, and your musings to be very thoughtful and inquisitive. This suggest that you are indeed exploring avenues of probabilities rather than devilizing one fighter and angelizing another. And please forgive the liberty I take with the English language, I hold to the tenet that once you get my meaning the verbalizing of some nouns is excusable.

However, I take issue with your comment that the motive for Floyd's demand is suspicious. What does FLoyd stand to gain from this demand? When the motive of someone's actions come under suspicion, it is generally presumed that they stand to gain something from that action. If not, motive becomes redundant. That is why it is no longer an essential element in the judicial presentation of cases before the court, and is mostly an investigative query. So again, what does Floyd stand to gain by demanding that both he and his opponent be subjected to a regimen of random drug testing? It would seem to me, that you are just flinging out a preponderance of probabilities in pursuit of something that will stick. And that tends to vitiate the good sense that inundate the remainder of your comment.

The same people who are claiming that Mosely is inferior to Floyd, a few pages and threads away were claiming that Floyd was afraid of him. That kind of convenient shifting certainly is not acceptable as a yardstick in terms of Shane Mosley's current ability. He just destroyed someone who many of these pundits were accusing Floyd of ducking quite recently. I can't remember anyone making that observation when Bernard Hopkins signed to fight Kelly Pavlik.

Marquez has been consistent in his abilities throughout his career. The correct analogy in terms of PBF consistency has to be Shane Mosely, and he has demanded, and Shane has acceded to, a regimen of random drug testing throughout their preparation for the fight. Look, I have no problem with criticism of PBF or the fact that many believe that Mosely will beat him. But like I said, I get cognitive dissonant with a conversational premise that argues against increased scrutiny of substances fighters are putting into their bodies. In a sport where we have seen many fighters dying from blows they received in the ring, one would have expected universal support for what Mayweather initiated. That it did not, for me, is further evidence that in boxing, like so many other areas of interaction in the US, wrong and right has more to do with the personalities involved, than with the situational issue under discussion.

They don't like Floyd. They do not like his braggadocio personality. Many of them have been anticipating the enjoyment of seeing him being beaten to a pulp and silenced for more than a decade. Unfortunately for them, none of the hopefuls have been up to the task. Manny, displaying a phenomenal increase in power and ability over the past couple of years seem like the best chance for realizing a seemingly unreachable dream. How dare Floyd Mayweather Junior rob them of this expectant thrill by introducing a condition that would unequivocally level the playing field, and thus risk denying them something for which they have been yearning for decades? How else can one explain the flights of irrational and unreasonable fancies being introduced into the discussion? If you ask me, it is the motives behind these that should have aroused your suspicions.

Wow, you did use a lot of liberty in expressing yourself in the English language. Are you an English professor or something? For a while there, you got me confused. You see, English is not my primary language.

With regards to the motive for Floyd's demand being suspicious, please read this link. Although it puts the blame on a lot of people, read the item with regards to Mayweather.
Blame Enough For Everyone In The Foolish Failure To Deliver Floyd Mayweather - Manny Pacquiao
I hope that answers your question.

[Hornfinger]

Here u go. Manny Pac has the best resume in boxing today. The only thing stopping him being a genuine ATG in my eyes is the drug taking suspicions.

Okey, so my initial question does not apply to you.

I am surprise that our exchange of comments has been civil. I have read some of your comments with regards to other posters and you can be brutal.

Did u read the nonsense they come out with though? Unfortunately no matter how great Pac is, he has the worst supporters in boxing. They think they are defending him but in reality they are turning other fans against him thru their one eyed fanboyism.

I dunno Hatton fans are pretty awful. They really did spoil our trip to vegas when he fought mayweather.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Okey, so my initial question does not apply to you.

I am surprise that our exchange of comments has been civil. I have read some of your comments with regards to other posters and you can be brutal.

Did u read the nonsense they come out with though? Unfortunately no matter how great Pac is, he has the worst supporters in boxing. They think they are defending him but in reality they are turning other fans against him thru their one eyed fanboyism.

I dunno Hatton fans are pretty awful. They really did spoil our trip to vegas when he fought mayweather.

There are fanatics in every sport, some are just more extreme than the others. Some can even resort to violence. I have watched riots break out in the street after their team wins the championship and there had been clashes between opposing soccer fans.

And Hornfinger, sorry for your trip being spoiled. If you are not Hatton's countryman and wasn't even routing for any particular boxer, you would have cherished the moment that he got beaten just to get back on those fans. We sometimes develop a hatred for an athlete or a team because of our hatred towards their fan.

[Gandalf]

Manny Pac's resume swarms all over that of Mayweather's over the past five years. I don't think Manny has won all of his fights, but he has fought the better opponents P4P all in all.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Manny Pac's resume swarms all over that of Mayweather's over the past five years. I don't think Manny has won all of his fights, but he has fought the better opponents P4P all in all.

Would a win by Floyd over Shane make him equal or even surpass Pac's resume?

[Gandalf]

Manny Pac's resume swarms all over that of Mayweather's over the past five years. I don't think Manny has won all of his fights, but he has fought the better opponents P4P all in all.

Would a win by Floyd over Shane make him equal or even surpass Pac's resume?

Well, I did say over the past five years. It would be an impressive win, but Cotto arguably got to Mosley already. I do think the Cotto/Mosley fight was very close though and it could have gone either way.

Manny had the clear opportunity to make his legacy and turned his nose up at the idea of a fair and equal drug testing procedure. No matter what Manny does from here on out, his legacy is seriously tarnished by his inability to face Mayweather. Manny has the better resume but he has done himself in by chickening out of the Mayweather fight.

I think we will see some of the fallout in the Pac/Clottey PPV figures.

[killersheep]

Manny Pac's resume swarms all over that of Mayweather's over the past five years. I don't think Manny has won all of his fights, but he has fought the better opponents P4P all in all.

Would a win by Floyd over Shane make him equal or even surpass Pac's resume?

Well, I did say over the past five years. It would be an impressive win, but Cotto arguably got to Mosley already. I do think the Cotto/Mosley fight was very close though and it could have gone either way.

Manny had the clear opportunity to make his legacy and turned his nose up at the idea of a fair and equal drug testing procedure. No matter what Manny does from here on out, his legacy is seriously tarnished by his inability to face Mayweather. Manny has the better resume but he has done himself in by chickening out of the Mayweather fight.

I think we will see some of the fallout in the Pac/Clottey PPV figures.

I think another factor that will effect those PPV figures is the fact that they are trying to get Margarito back on the card. For me personally I usually buy the big PPVs, and my decision to get this one or not lies strictly with the fact of Margarito gets on it or not. I know I'm not in the majority on this, but I'm not alone either.

[CFH]

Would a win by Floyd over Shane make him equal or even surpass Pac's resume?

Well, I did say over the past five years. It would be an impressive win, but Cotto arguably got to Mosley already. I do think the Cotto/Mosley fight was very close though and it could have gone either way.

Manny had the clear opportunity to make his legacy and turned his nose up at the idea of a fair and equal drug testing procedure. No matter what Manny does from here on out, his legacy is seriously tarnished by his inability to face Mayweather. Manny has the better resume but he has done himself in by chickening out of the Mayweather fight.

I think we will see some of the fallout in the Pac/Clottey PPV figures.

I think another factor that will effect those PPV figures is the fact that they are trying to get Margarito back on the card. For me personally I usually buy the big PPVs, and my decision to get this one or not lies strictly with the fact of Margarito gets on it or not. I know I'm not in the majority on this, but I'm not alone either.

So you won't be buying Pac - Clottey is Margarito is on the card? I won't be buying it anyways, but I hope a lot of people take the same position you are (though I doubt many will).