Does Manny have the best resume at welter now?

[Majesty]

Without doubt on current form. All the formlines point to Pac being the man.

Pac whacks Cotto and Clottey on the bridle. Mosley lost against Cotto. Clottey gives Cotto a 50/50 job.

Floyd's not even in the race on any 147 form.

Will that opinion be the same once Floyd beats Mosley?

Everyone calls Mosley the best at 147 right now so if Floyd beats Mosley does that trump what Pacquiao has done?

He beat Cotto but you could make an argument that Cotto was done after the Margarito fight and showed great weakness against Clottey. Actually the only welterweights he beat that were relevant at the time are Clottey and Cotto.

So I don't know how his welterweight resume is better then Shane's. You can say that Shane lost to Cotto. But then I can say Cotto lost to Margarito and Shane decimated Margarito. So it goes both ways.

However if you look at it. Shane took on Margarito when he was the most feared at 147 after what he did to Cintron and to Cotto. before the whole handwraps controversy, and Shane fought him and beat him.

Pacquiao fought a dead DLH, a Cotto that a lot of people felt was done especially after the Clottey performance, and he fought a Clottey in an uninteresting fight.

To me Shane has the better resume and is the top of 147, because of the relevance of the people he fought when he fought them. And I do think if Mayweather beats Shane that he has a better resume then Pacquiao at welterweight. Considering Pacquiao has only fought two relevant welters, Cotto and Clottey, I don't know how people could say he has a better resume then Shane.

Well Shane fought Margarito minus the handwraps. And he he lost to Cotto, and he hasn't fought anyone else of significance at welter for several years.

Luis Collazo? B- maybe.

So he's got a 66% win percentage against Cotto, Margarito and Collazo.

Manny is 100% against Oscar, Cotto and Clottey and arguably didn't even lose a round against any of them.

He's dominated guys that have given all kinds of trouble to other opponents and to be honest the only evidence people have that his opponents were past their best or done is the total beatdowns he put on them.

Many people on here were saying Shane was done after his fight with Mayorga, which was only two fights ago, before that he lost to Cotto.

He beat Margarito, but he had had his handwraps taken away before the fight. One really great performance versus' Manny's three.

Of course, I don't think he'll beat Floyd considering his performance against Mayorga, but we're talking about "resumes" not performances.

And the Oscar that Pacquiao beat was a shell of the Oscar that Shane had already beaten. Whether or not it was years apart in his welterweight resume, Shane has done more then Pacquiao.

I'd put Collazo at about the same place Clottey is at.

So lets say Collazo and Clottey are the same.

Pacquiao beat Oscar, dead and done
Shane beat Oscar in his prime.
Pacquiao beat Clottey
Shane beat Collazo
Pacquiao beat Cotto
Shane beat Margarito, who made Cotto damaged goods.
I think Shane has the better resume and better wins at Welterweight. But to each its own, its all a matter of perspective and opinion, we both make good points either way.

[Fenster]

Mosley has beaten an elite Oscar at 147, but that was 10 years ago.

Apart from that his next best win is Margarito. Collazo rates just above Stone, Diaz, and Taylor.

Even if Floyd beats Mosley he is only doing something Cotto did recently. And Pac whooped Cotto.

Pac is quite simply the man on all current formlines. The winner of Floyd-Shane needs to beat him.

[JazMerkin]

Mosley has beaten an elite Oscar at 147, but that was 10 years ago.

Apart from that his next best win is Margarito. Collazo rates just above Stone, Diaz, and Taylor.

Even if Floyd beats Mosley he is only doing something Cotto did recently. And Pac whooped Cotto.

Pac is quite simply the man on all current formlines. The winner of Floyd-Shane needs to beat him.

Ok then on modern formlines.

Mosley's win over Margarito>>>Pacquiao's win over Cotto

Reasoning being that despite Cotto having a close win over Mosley, Cotto got stopped by Margarito who became the man & he was then KO'd by Shane. In the meantime, Cotto beat Michael Jennings & got a controversial win over Joshua Clottey.

Pac's win over Clottey>>>Mosley's win over Collazo

Pacquiao's win over Clottey is a bit better than Mosley's over Collazo, but not by much. All that does it is the fact that Clottey beat a better fighter in Judah to take the title than Collazo did in Rivera. Both Clottey & Collazo had lost controversial decisions in their previous big fights, hence making this not as big a result as their marquee wins.

I can't see how De La Hoya gets factored in. That's as relevant to the 147 debate as Mayweather's win over Hatton, probably less so (Hatton had been a champ at the weight in recent history). His time at 147 was ancient history so it really doesn't come in to deciding who the best welter is.

[Fenster]

Mosley has beaten an elite Oscar at 147, but that was 10 years ago.

Apart from that his next best win is Margarito. Collazo rates just above Stone, Diaz, and Taylor.

Even if Floyd beats Mosley he is only doing something Cotto did recently. And Pac whooped Cotto.

Pac is quite simply the man on all current formlines. The winner of Floyd-Shane needs to beat him.

Ok then on modern formlines.

Mosley's win over Margarito>>>Pacquiao's win over Cotto

Reasoning being that despite Cotto having a close win over Mosley, Cotto got stopped by Margarito who became the man & he was then KO'd by Shane. In the meantime, Cotto beat Michael Jennings & got a controversial win over Joshua Clottey.

Pac's win over Clottey>>>Mosley's win over Collazo

Pacquiao's win over Clottey is a bit better than Mosley's over Collazo, but not by much. All that does it is the fact that Clottey beat a better fighter in Judah to take the title than Collazo did in Rivera. Both Clottey & Collazo had lost controversial decisions in their previous big fights, hence making this not as big a result as their marquee wins.

I can't see how De La Hoya gets factored in. That's as relevant to the 147 debate as Mayweather's win over Hatton, probably less so (Hatton had been a champ at the weight in recent history). His time at 147 was ancient history so it really doesn't come in to deciding who the best welter is.

The Margarito formline doesn't really concern Pac.

The only formline that matters is - Pac, Shane, Cotto, Clottey.

Mosley lost to Cotto. Clottely lost to Cotto. Pac beat Cotto. Pac beat Clottey.

That puts Shane behind Pac. Floyd can't even get a look in. His best 147 win - Zab - was whopped by both Cotto and Clottey.

[JazMerkin]

Mosley has beaten an elite Oscar at 147, but that was 10 years ago.

Apart from that his next best win is Margarito. Collazo rates just above Stone, Diaz, and Taylor.

Even if Floyd beats Mosley he is only doing something Cotto did recently. And Pac whooped Cotto.

Pac is quite simply the man on all current formlines. The winner of Floyd-Shane needs to beat him.

Ok then on modern formlines.

Mosley's win over Margarito>>>Pacquiao's win over Cotto

Reasoning being that despite Cotto having a close win over Mosley, Cotto got stopped by Margarito who became the man & he was then KO'd by Shane. In the meantime, Cotto beat Michael Jennings & got a controversial win over Joshua Clottey.

Pac's win over Clottey>>>Mosley's win over Collazo

Pacquiao's win over Clottey is a bit better than Mosley's over Collazo, but not by much. All that does it is the fact that Clottey beat a better fighter in Judah to take the title than Collazo did in Rivera. Both Clottey & Collazo had lost controversial decisions in their previous big fights, hence making this not as big a result as their marquee wins.

I can't see how De La Hoya gets factored in. That's as relevant to the 147 debate as Mayweather's win over Hatton, probably less so (Hatton had been a champ at the weight in recent history). His time at 147 was ancient history so it really doesn't come in to deciding who the best welter is.

The Margarito formline doesn't really concern Pac.

The only formline that matters is - Pac, Shane, Cotto, Clottey.

Mosley lost to Cotto. Clottely lost to Cotto. Pac beat Cotto. Pac beat Clottey.

That puts Shane behind Pac. Floyd can't even get a look in. His best 147 win - Zab - was whopped by both Cotto and Clottey.

Except that doesn't work because you have to factor in that Margarito beat Cotto. You just can't get away from it, it had a massive effect on Cotto, he never looked the same fighter.

Also if we use your theory then Baldomir becomes Floyd's best win because he beat Judah & Clottey. Does that somehow elevate him higher than his formline. Oh & Clottey didn't 'whoop' Judah. Cotto may have done but Clottey really didn't.

[Fenster]

Ok then on modern formlines.

Mosley's win over Margarito>>>Pacquiao's win over Cotto

Reasoning being that despite Cotto having a close win over Mosley, Cotto got stopped by Margarito who became the man & he was then KO'd by Shane. In the meantime, Cotto beat Michael Jennings & got a controversial win over Joshua Clottey.

Pac's win over Clottey>>>Mosley's win over Collazo

Pacquiao's win over Clottey is a bit better than Mosley's over Collazo, but not by much. All that does it is the fact that Clottey beat a better fighter in Judah to take the title than Collazo did in Rivera. Both Clottey & Collazo had lost controversial decisions in their previous big fights, hence making this not as big a result as their marquee wins.

I can't see how De La Hoya gets factored in. That's as relevant to the 147 debate as Mayweather's win over Hatton, probably less so (Hatton had been a champ at the weight in recent history). His time at 147 was ancient history so it really doesn't come in to deciding who the best welter is.

The Margarito formline doesn't really concern Pac.

The only formline that matters is - Pac, Shane, Cotto, Clottey.

Mosley lost to Cotto. Clottely lost to Cotto. Pac beat Cotto. Pac beat Clottey.

That puts Shane behind Pac. Floyd can't even get a look in. His best 147 win - Zab - was whopped by both Cotto and Clottey.

Except that doesn't work because you have to factor in that Margarito beat Cotto. You just can't get away from it, it had a massive effect on Cotto, he never looked the same fighter.

Also if we use your theory then Baldomir becomes Floyd's best win because he beat Judah & Clottey. Does that somehow elevate him higher than his formline. Oh & Clottey didn't 'whoop' Judah. Cotto may have done but Clottey really didn't.

My formline doesn't account for a fighters state of being.

It's just a basic simple man who beat the man logic. Margarito has no bearing on Pac because there's no link to him. The links between Shane and Pac have Pac on top through Cotto.

I thought Clottey made Zab want to quit. And yes Baldomir IS Floyd's best 147 win on paper

[JazMerkin]

My formline doesn't account for a fighters state of being.

It's just a basic simple man who beat the man logic. Margarito has no bearing on Pac because there's no link to him. The links between Shane and Pac have Pac on top through Cotto.

I thought Clottey made Zab want to quit. And yes Baldomir IS Floyd's best 147 win on paper

If that was what it was you'd have it Cotto>Margarito>Mosley. Margarito's win over Cotto made him the man.

[Majesty]

Mosley has beaten an elite Oscar at 147, but that was 10 years ago.

Apart from that his next best win is Margarito. Collazo rates just above Stone, Diaz, and Taylor.

Even if Floyd beats Mosley he is only doing something Cotto did recently. And Pac whooped Cotto.

Pac is quite simply the man on all current formlines. The winner of Floyd-Shane needs to beat him.

whooping Cotto is only something Margarito did recently, and Mosley whooped Margarito

[skel1983]

Mosley has beaten an elite Oscar at 147, but that was 10 years ago.

Apart from that his next best win is Margarito. Collazo rates just above Stone, Diaz, and Taylor.

Even if Floyd beats Mosley he is only doing something Cotto did recently. And Pac whooped Cotto.

Pac is quite simply the man on all current formlines. The winner of Floyd-Shane needs to beat him.

whooping Cotto is only something Margarito did recently, and Mosley whooped Margarito

It's a difficult one officially Mosley is the man but Pac for me has had the better victory's.

[Cleon]

Mosley has beaten an elite Oscar at 147, but that was 10 years ago.

Apart from that his next best win is Margarito. Collazo rates just above Stone, Diaz, and Taylor.

Even if Floyd beats Mosley he is only doing something Cotto did recently. And Pac whooped Cotto.

Pac is quite simply the man on all current formlines. The winner of Floyd-Shane needs to beat him.

whooping Cotto is only something Margarito did recently, and Mosley whooped Margarito

It's a difficult one officially Mosley is the man but Pac for me has had the better victory's.

Yeah Mosley is stil da man
But Pac recent performances have been brilliant
Mosley has been inactive, as he chased both Floyd & Manny, then Berto fell through
But hes still the man to beat

[Truth]

Yes.
ODLH, Cotto, Clottey all were thoroughly dominated by Pacman
Mosley almost lost to Mayorga before exploding in the twelfth and that Margarito win really isn't that impressive to em since I put no value in Margarito's "victory" over Cotto