Dominance! (There will be spoilers about Wlad-Chambers)

[Pugilistic]

Hopkins and Calzaghe were fighting men who weighed the same and had similar physical tools. There were no 40 pound weight differentials to be dealing with. If the guy was taller, then at least you knew you weighed the same. The other weight classes exist for good reason. Only at heavyweight can you get such size disparities.

Don't get me wrong Wlad does what he needs to do and it isn't his fault that there is noone to challenge him, but Chambers could quite easily make cruiserweight. Wlad is a superheavyweight really. I think the size can be overcome with skills, but unfortunately there seems to be nothing much on the horizon. A Tyson type figure would put the fear of god into Wlad. Tyson would be his achilles heel. I just don't see how Wladimir would be able to keep him off and stay calm enough to not allow his stamina to suffer badly. Chambers is quite quick, but not offensive minded in the slightest. He has no real power and was too willing to just let the seconds tick by while Wlad kept pawing at the guard.

I've always much preferred Vitali to Wlad, at least the man engages and throws punches.

It's not Wlad's fault that he has a size advantage over most of his opponents. Wlad's size is an advantage but not that much of a advantage that he can dominate all the fighters he faces. he has a great skillset to go along with his size. The heavyweight division states that anything over 200 pounds is a heavyweight so it's not like he's cheating lol.

Size wasn't a factor for Eddie when he clearly outboxed 6ft7 254 pounds Alexander Dimitrenko for 12 rounds. Dimitrenko actually has a longer reach than Wlad by 2 inches and Eddie was even able to hurt him a few times.

It was all different against Wlad though because he has alot of boxing ability to go along with the size and reach.

it's not a lot of boxing ability. it's his strength and power. if he had a lot of boxing ability, he wouldn't have went in there head hunting and made to look like an absolute monkey at times by chambers.

there isn't much gap if at all between wlad and chambers in boxing skills.

Wlad doesn't win fights on power, he outboxes his opponent then knocks them out.

Eddie barely landed on Wlad except for the odd right hand over the top and a few bodyshots all the while getting jabbed constantly through his guard.

Wlad clearly outboxed Chambers, his jab alone forced Eddie to go into a shell. Wlad is clearly the better boxer and it showed last night.

[sumkalambay]

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

[Nameless]

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

Actually, he does, and he does defend and articulate his arguments very clearly and solidly, you're the one avoiding it, his demonstration was to prove that Wlad didn't win only because of reach, weight and height but because of great skills who he uses along with his physical advantages(which is totally right) and he gave the Dimitrienko example to show that Chambers have won against much bigger, heavier and with more reach than him and that you cannot solely place Wlad's victory on the "size but talentless" category.

[OumaFan]

It was a meh performance aided at every turn by a pathetic ref.

[Pugilistic]

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.

Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.

but thats not the point.

Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?

[sumkalambay]

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.

Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.

but thats not the point.

Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?

when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

[Pugilistic]

yeah and lennox lewis outboxed evander holyfield. muhammad ali outboxed archie moore and floyd patterson. so what? lennox lewis isn't even in the same tier as holyfield in terms of boxing skills. and muhammad ali couldn't carry neither archie moore's nor patterson's jockstrap in boxing skills either. you are not getting the point.

Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.

Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.

but thats not the point.

Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?

when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.

[ninjaspy3]

Lewis > Holyfield and i'm a Holyfield fan.

Ali > Moore and Paterson clearly imo.

but thats not the point.

Are you finally admitting that Wlad outboxed Eddie ?

when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.

....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill

Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.

[Gandalf]

when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.

....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill

Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.

Totally agree. It's the size that is making almost all the difference for me. The differences in skill levels and Wlad's opponents isn't all that great, it's more the size and weight advantages Wlad has from the off. If you were to knock 3 inches off of Wlad's height, opponents would have a much easier time of getting to him. In a situation like that he would come across as very one dimensional and limited and would also be revealed by his weak chin.

Wlad throws the same two punches everytime and throws in a clinch every now and then to raise the excitement factor. He is not only boring, but quite limited. Like I say, take away the height advantages and put him in with a fighter with a decent skill set and he gets shown up. Or put him in with a hungry Tyson type and see him wilt.

[Nameless]

when have I ever said wlad didin't outbox eddie? of course he outboxed him. my point was about boxing skills.

and no, holyfield is way greater than lewis. and muhammad ali can't touch archie moore p4p.

Wlad being able to totally outbox Eddie should mean that Wlad has the far superior boxing skills correct ? If there boxing ability had been on par, it would of been alot closer.

....There are two factors at play here: size AND skill

Now hypothetically speaking, two opponents can have equal skill but, the size difference will always play a role. So back to your question. Yes, Wlad is more skilled but the skill gap is not nearly as large between him and chambers, as the skill + size gap is. Its both factors together which create the mismatch.

Pugilistic never said that the size doesn't matter, he used the example of Dimitrienko to put that in perspective: the guy was almost as big as Wlad, longer reach heavier but lost to chambers because Chambers was better skilled. Now, Wlad who's more or less Dimitrienko's size (and even not as heavy and not a reach as great) has been able to literally toy Chambers and knock him down BECAUSE he has also a nice set of skills, which Sumkalambay did deny him in first instance.

[ninjaspy3]

It's not Wlad's fault that he has a size advantage over most of his opponents. Wlad's size is an advantage but not that much of a advantage that he can dominate all the fighters he faces. he has a great skillset to go along with his size. The heavyweight division states that anything over 200 pounds is a heavyweight so it's not like he's cheating lol.

Size wasn't a factor for Eddie when he clearly outboxed 6ft7 254 pounds Alexander Dimitrenko for 12 rounds. Dimitrenko actually has a longer reach than Wlad by 2 inches and Eddie was even able to hurt him a few times.

It was all different against Wlad though because he has alot of boxing ability to go along with the size and reach.

it's not a lot of boxing ability. it's his strength and power. if he had a lot of boxing ability, he wouldn't have went in there head hunting and made to look like an absolute monkey at times by chambers.

there isn't much gap if at all between wlad and chambers in boxing skills.

Wlad doesn't win fights on power, he outboxes his opponent then knocks them out.

Eddie barely landed on Wlad except for the odd right hand over the top and a few bodyshots all the while getting jabbed constantly through his guard.

Wlad clearly outboxed Chambers, his jab alone forced Eddie to go into a shell. Wlad is clearly the better boxer and it showed last night.

Demitrenko did not fight using the full advantage of his height and reach, while Wlad does it well. Also Wlad likes to hold when a fighter gets close, which I must say is a bit unfair for the smaller man.

Its like, a small fighter has to work hard to get in on Wlad and then gets held. Serious disadvantage there. I know Lennox did it too.

Anyway, the point is that a very good tall and strong boxer can easily make a very hard fight for a smaller (and weaker), but skilled opponent.
The smaller opponent has to deal with the skill -and- the size of the other guy.

[Pugilistic]

it's not a lot of boxing ability. it's his strength and power. if he had a lot of boxing ability, he wouldn't have went in there head hunting and made to look like an absolute monkey at times by chambers.

there isn't much gap if at all between wlad and chambers in boxing skills.

Wlad doesn't win fights on power, he outboxes his opponent then knocks them out.

Eddie barely landed on Wlad except for the odd right hand over the top and a few bodyshots all the while getting jabbed constantly through his guard.

Wlad clearly outboxed Chambers, his jab alone forced Eddie to go into a shell. Wlad is clearly the better boxer and it showed last night.

Demitrenko did not fight using the full advantage of his height and reach, while Wlad does it well. Also Wlad likes to hold when a fighter gets close, which I must say is a bit unfair for the smaller man.

Its like, a small fighter has to work hard to get in on Wlad and then gets held. Serious disadvantage there. I know Lennox did it too.

Anyway, the point is that a very good tall and strong boxer can easily make a very hard fight for a smaller (and weaker), but skilled opponent.
The smaller opponent has to deal with the skill -and- the size of the other guy.

So why is Wlad get criticized because he knows how to use his reach and height to his advantage ?

Wlad did hold when Eddie got in close, Wlad isn't an inside fighter though, i can't blame him for holding. Eddie rarely did throw and get inside as well, he was more happy to stand right in front of Wlad and cover up.

[Pugilistic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6TnRvjA8ig

This is Chambers interview after his fight with Wlad.