David Haye another Amir Con? Manufactured "champ?"

[ninjaspy3]

David Haye in my opinion is another Amir Khan or should I say Con?

Just like Con boy he picks up an alphabet strap by fighting the worst champion in the division in Con boy's case it was Kotelnik, in Haye's case Valuev. Valuev retained his belt via controversial decision against Holyfield and Kotelnik via controversial decision against Maidana. Just like Con boy he is also the holder of the WBA belt. Arguably the worst major organization out there with super champions and interim champions. And he also defended his strap against a weak mandatory, in Con boy's case Salita and Haye's case Ruiz (now all of a sudden people are acting like Ruiz was elite.)

Haye and Con boy also ducked the real champ of the division and the elite contenders. Con boy ducks Maidana, an somewhat elite contender with dangerous power, and Tim Bradley considered by many to be the man of the 140 pounders. Haye ducks an elite contender in Vitali (with the WBC strap) and punked out against the champ/man of the HW division, Wladimir.

Haye just like con boy gets hyped up, so called savior of the HW division and will supposedly beat the Klit Bros easily.

Both Con boy and Haye are what boxing fans like me would like to called manufactured "champs." And please stop calling Haye the HW champ, he's not, that's like calling Con boy 140 pound champ, he's not. Last I checked Wladimir is still the man at HW and Bradley is the man at 140. Having a trinket don't mean shit in today's boxing.

What I just typed out is the truth. Ain't no exaggerating anything.

Your timing with this topic just come off as sour grapes for me.
Haye wins a fight and now you feel the need to start a little Haye hating eh?

Champs, manufactured or not are still champs. If it was so easy then everyone would do it now wouldn't they? Ah right, but they can't.

And what I said is the truth isn't it? Didn't he punked out against Wlad and Vitali? Was Valuev not the worst titleholder at HW? Was Ruiz not a weak mandatory? Which part did I exaggerate or lie?

And ICB, his record at cruiserweight means didlely squat at HW. He's going to have to prove himself at HW

It makes no sense to say that Haye needs to prove himself at HW, if everytime he has a HW fight someone going to come along and say that the win doesnt mean anything, and he is a manufactured champ.

And the issue about pulling out of the fights with the Klitschkos is debatable. Other people have already debated this and I dont want to touch it, because it will not get us anywhere. But to say that Haye "punked out" is to stating your opinion, not necessarily fact.

The only real proof will come when the fight with a Klitschko happens. So why cant people just be patient and let it happen? Just because it didnt happen does not mean that it will not happen. (ie Mayweather Pacqiauo)

[generalbulldog]

Your timing with this topic just come off as sour grapes for me.
Haye wins a fight and now you feel the need to start a little Haye hating eh?

Champs, manufactured or not are still champs. If it was so easy then everyone would do it now wouldn't they? Ah right, but they can't.

And what I said is the truth isn't it? Didn't he punked out against Wlad and Vitali? Was Valuev not the worst titleholder at HW? Was Ruiz not a weak mandatory? Which part did I exaggerate or lie?

And ICB, his record at cruiserweight means didlely squat at HW. He's going to have to prove himself at HW

It makes no sense to say that Haye needs to prove himself at HW, if everytime he has a HW fight someone going to come along and say that the win doesnt mean anything, and he is a manufactured champ.

And the issue about pulling out of the fights with the Klitschkos is debatable. Other people have already debated this and I dont want to touch it, because it will not get us anywhere. But to say that Haye "punked out" is to stating your opinion, not necessarily fact.

The only real proof will come when the fight with a Klitschko happens. So why cant people just be patient and let it happen? Just because it didnt happen does not mean that it will not happen. (ie Mayweather Pacqiauo)

Wait a minute. The people on this board are saying that Haye is the savior of the HW division and that he easily and definitely beats the Klitschkos easy. So he doesn't need to prove himself by taking on the Klitschkos?
Most people here are saying he's the HW champ? So shouldn't the HW champ prove it in the ring against the Klitschko who have dominated the division for a while now?


@Fenster
Pac may be the last man at 140 and we all know he's not fighting there again, but it is generally recognized that Bradley is the defacto "man" at 140 right now, the guy to beat. Surely you're not suggesting that Con boy is more legitimate than Bradley at 140?

And Haye at the HW division just like Khan at 140 is a manufactured champ. People should Stop bringing up his cruiserweight reign, it means didley squat at HW. By that logic we might as well used Pac's reign at 130 to say that he's accomplished a lot at Welterweight.

Mark my words, Haye will be fighting a Eddie Chambers, Adamek, guys that are iffy at HW. He's going to avoid the Klits for the next 2 years and hopes that they either lose, become shot, or in serious decline to take them on. He for sure ain't taking on a Arreola either or even a Povetkin.

BTW, it's kind of funny that many on this board has been calling either Pac or Mayweather as cherry picking fighters that don't take real challenges, but for Haye everything's a-okay with the Klitschko debacle and his little foray into the HW division fighting guys like Barret, Ruiz, etc.

[1-hit Wonder]

Frankly General Bulldog, do a tiny bit of research before calling a fighter a manufactured product. Because frankly, your conclusion that Haye is manufactered doesnt stand up in light of the facts.

Haye has fought 25 fights, in that time he has become unified cruiserweight champ (22nd fight) and current WBA heavyweight titlist.

He has only fought 4 fighters with losing records in his career. His 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th fights.

He fought 2 ex world titlists in his 10th and 11th fights respectively.

He is a former bronzer medalist in the amatuer world championships.

He has promoted himself and has not had the Frank Warren mismatches and filler fights. He has made his own way without the help of any big-time promotion or hype courtesy of the afformentioned devil man.

Now compare these FACTS against any current fighter you wish. I think you'll find that Haye's resume stands up to comparison.

Frankly, calling Haye a manufactered champion is the most perposterous thing ive heard on these forums for a very long time.

[generalbulldog]

Frankly General Bulldog, do a tiny bit of research before calling a fighter a manufactured product. Because frankly, your conclusion that Haye is manufactered doesnt stand up in light of the facts.

Haye has fought 25 fights, in that time he has become unified cruiserweight champ (22nd fight) and current WBA heavyweight titlist.

He has only fought 4 fighters with losing records in his career. His 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th fights.

He fought 2 ex world titlists in his 10th and 11th fights respectively.

He is a former bronzer medalist in the amatuer world championships.

He has promoted himself and has not had the Frank Warren mismatches and filler fights. He has made his own way without the help of any big-time promotion or hype courtesy of the afformentioned devil man.

Now compare these FACTS against any current fighter you wish. I think you'll find that Haye's resume stands up to comparison.

Frankly, calling Haye a manufactered champion is the most perposterous thing ive heard on these forums for a very long time.

Okay let me be exact. An manufactured HW champion. Heavyweight! Get it? I was talking about his HW "reign." The guy punked out not once, but twice against the Klit bros. And of course half of this board were excusing that fact as the Klits offering him a bad contract.

I can also name a bunch of fighters that blows away his resume. Starting with the 2 current faces of boxing and the 2 old timers fighting yesterday.

@Fenster, fair enough if you see Bradley as just an alphabet title holder, but his resume blows away what Khan has done. And the guy fights any guy in his division. You can't say that about Con boy.

Yes people have said, and I have agreed that Wlad does not have a fan friendly style, but hey he's the man of the division. Until someone beats him.

[ono]

Frankly General Bulldog, do a tiny bit of research before calling a fighter a manufactured product. Because frankly, your conclusion that Haye is manufactered doesnt stand up in light of the facts.

Haye has fought 25 fights, in that time he has become unified cruiserweight champ (22nd fight) and current WBA heavyweight titlist.

He has only fought 4 fighters with losing records in his career. His 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th fights.

He fought 2 ex world titlists in his 10th and 11th fights respectively.

He is a former bronzer medalist in the amatuer world championships.

He has promoted himself and has not had the Frank Warren mismatches and filler fights. He has made his own way without the help of any big-time promotion or hype courtesy of the afformentioned devil man.

Now compare these FACTS against any current fighter you wish. I think you'll find that Haye's resume stands up to comparison.

Frankly, calling Haye a manufactered champion is the most perposterous thing ive heard on these forums for a very long time.

Okay let me be exact. An manufactured HW champion. Heavyweight! Get it? I was talking about his HW "reign." The guy punked out not once, but twice against the Klit bros. And of course half of this board were excusing that fact as the Klits offering him a bad contract.

I can also name a bunch of fighters that blows away his resume. Starting with the 2 current faces of boxing and the 2 old timers fighting yesterday.

@Fenster, fair enough if you see Bradley as just an alphabet title holder, but his resume blows away what Khan has done. And the guy fights any guy in his division. You can't say that about Con boy.

Yes people have said, and I have agreed that Wlad does not have a fan friendly style, but hey he's the man of the division. Until someone beats him.

Maybe so, but if Kahn beats Malignaggi, then he won't be far behind him in terms of resume. I don't see the deal either way, both fighters have so much time in front of them. You can bitch about Khan all you want but he's stepping up the level of opposition much quicker than Calzaghe and Hatton did and they've both had very good careers.

Haye didn't punk the Klit fight. The reason he pulled out was down to the TV deal. Basically the only money he was making from the fight would have been from the ppv sales from Setanta. Setanta went bankrput, therefore np pay for Haye. Obviously you'd want him to fight for free, but in the real world it doesn't work like that.

[ninjaspy3]

Frankly General Bulldog, do a tiny bit of research before calling a fighter a manufactured product. Because frankly, your conclusion that Haye is manufactered doesnt stand up in light of the facts.

Haye has fought 25 fights, in that time he has become unified cruiserweight champ (22nd fight) and current WBA heavyweight titlist.

He has only fought 4 fighters with losing records in his career. His 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th fights.

He fought 2 ex world titlists in his 10th and 11th fights respectively.

He is a former bronzer medalist in the amatuer world championships.

He has promoted himself and has not had the Frank Warren mismatches and filler fights. He has made his own way without the help of any big-time promotion or hype courtesy of the afformentioned devil man.

Now compare these FACTS against any current fighter you wish. I think you'll find that Haye's resume stands up to comparison.

Frankly, calling Haye a manufactered champion is the most perposterous thing ive heard on these forums for a very long time.

Okay let me be exact. An manufactured HW champion. Heavyweight! Get it? I was talking about his HW "reign." The guy punked out not once, but twice against the Klit bros. And of course half of this board were excusing that fact as the Klits offering him a bad contract.

I can also name a bunch of fighters that blows away his resume. Starting with the 2 current faces of boxing and the 2 old timers fighting yesterday.

@Fenster, fair enough if you see Bradley as just an alphabet title holder, but his resume blows away what Khan has done. And the guy fights any guy in his division. You can't say that about Con boy.

Yes people have said, and I have agreed that Wlad does not have a fan friendly style, but hey he's the man of the division. Until someone beats him.

Why do you keep stating this as if it were a fact?

And what difference does the resume make once you hold a belt? I mean, resume or no, at that point you are a belt holder.

And to the idea of manufactured champ, if it's so easy, then why cant just anyone do it? But the fact is, many people didnt do it. But for some reason, Haye and Khan have.

So obviously they have something whether people want to admit it or not. Otherwise they would not, and could not be where they are today.

[Spicoli]

I can't in all fairness as a Holyfield fan call Haye a manufactured heavyweight,or champion.No...not in his class as far as I'm concerned but he put on the weight and made the transition from an established top Cruiserweight to heavyweight......where as Kahn was a pushed product,green and has until very recently honed skills and shown good improvment.

Besides...its the heavyweights.They need all the fawking help that they can get and for all of his bravado and mouth Haye is a shot in the arm.He starched a known comodity in impressive fashion lastnight.I have no doubts he'll face one of the brothers and if he does not,shame on him and too bad for the fans.

[Fenster]

@Fenster, fair enough if you see Bradley as just an alphabet title holder, but his resume blows away what Khan has done. And the guy fights any guy in his division. You can't say that about Con boy.

Bradley has a better record than Khan at 140, that's why he's rated in front of him, he is no legit champion though.

As for fighting anyone in the division, for a guy like Bradley that sells no tickets and has no fans (outside the hardcore), it's understandable he risks the tougher guys to get the money.

Unfortunately Bradley is a "ducker" too though.

Bradley ducks Alexander Gary Shaw Responds To Team Devon Alexander - Boxing News

Maidana ducks Bradley HBO Protecting Amir Khan? Industry Chatter is Shocking - Boxing News


They're all "duckers" until the money is right

[LukeH]

And what I said is the truth isn't it? Didn't he punked out against Wlad and Vitali? Was Valuev not the worst titleholder at HW? Was Ruiz not a weak mandatory? Which part did I exaggerate or lie?

And ICB, his record at cruiserweight means didlely squat at HW. He's going to have to prove himself at HW

It makes no sense to say that Haye needs to prove himself at HW, if everytime he has a HW fight someone going to come along and say that the win doesnt mean anything, and he is a manufactured champ.

And the issue about pulling out of the fights with the Klitschkos is debatable. Other people have already debated this and I dont want to touch it, because it will not get us anywhere. But to say that Haye "punked out" is to stating your opinion, not necessarily fact.

The only real proof will come when the fight with a Klitschko happens. So why cant people just be patient and let it happen? Just because it didnt happen does not mean that it will not happen. (ie Mayweather Pacqiauo)

Wait a minute. The people on this board are saying that Haye is the savior of the HW division and that he easily and definitely beats the Klitschkos easy. So he doesn't need to prove himself by taking on the Klitschkos?
Most people here are saying he's the HW champ? So shouldn't the HW champ prove it in the ring against the Klitschko who have dominated the division for a while now?


@Fenster
Pac may be the last man at 140 and we all know he's not fighting there again, but it is generally recognized that Bradley is the defacto "man" at 140 right now, the guy to beat. Surely you're not suggesting that Con boy is more legitimate than Bradley at 140?

And Haye at the HW division just like Khan at 140 is a manufactured champ. People should Stop bringing up his cruiserweight reign, it means didley squat at HW. By that logic we might as well used Pac's reign at 130 to say that he's accomplished a lot at Welterweight.

Mark my words, Haye will be fighting a Eddie Chambers, Adamek, guys that are iffy at HW. He's going to avoid the Klits for the next 2 years and hopes that they either lose, become shot, or in serious decline to take them on. He for sure ain't taking on a Arreola either or even a Povetkin.

BTW, it's kind of funny that many on this board has been calling either Pac or Mayweather as cherry picking fighters that don't take real challenges, but for Haye everything's a-okay with the Klitschko debacle and his little foray into the HW division fighting guys like Barret, Ruiz, etc.

Forgive me if people have actually said it, but I am yet to see anybody seriously say that Haye would 'easily and definitely beats the Klitschkos easy'

To be honest I dont think Haye is particulaly great but attacking him for saying his achievements at cruiser mean dick and then saying he hasnt fought anybody worth mentioning in his new division by your logic should surely go hand in hand? If what he did at cruiser doesn't mean anything he should have to build up his heavyweight status... Is that not what he's doing?

Ignore the shit he and his fans say, do you not agree that he's going about things as he should if what he's done outside of Heavyweight doesn't mean anything?