Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to hel

[rjj tszyu]

Do you honestly think that any HW today is as fast as the likes of Ali? Or that they hit as hard as Foreman? I don't, not at all.

And as for money, there is not as much in boxing anymore due to the interest declining. Ali and Foreman got £5 million each nearly 40 years ago. David Haye only got that last week. And why has the interest in boxing gone?? For me it's because the HW's are crap to watch. Don't get me wrong David Haye is a breath of fresh air to the division, but he is only one man and barring him and the Klitschkos I can't think of many HW's who are in real shape. They all seem to think that heavier is better and it's really ruining the division as lots of them are fat. Hopefully Haye will show the rest that fatter is not better, I mean Arreola for me could be very good if he just lost about 25-30lbs. But he's too obsessed with burgers and other crap foods. Same goes for Solis, its not that long since he was down at 200lbs and winning the olympics, now he's lucky to keep himself down to 260lbs, he's a mess.

The Klitschko's are both good athletes who are always in shape and for them it really is a shame because they are not getting perhaps the credit they are due because the rest are such a mess. As far as Eddie Chambers goes, to me he looks like a guy who should be fighting at 175lbs but due to the state of the HW's he has decided to fight up there and try his luck with naturally bigger men and until he has met someone in shape he has fared very well, but it was clear he was out of shape and out of his depth with Wlad.

The HW's need athletes not fat slobs.

[paddy448]

U make a good point. The klitscko brothers probably would have done well in any era. Behind them and probably David haye the depth of talent seems to be lacking. If u look at some of the klitscko brothers title defences their challengerS seem to show as if their deer caught in headlights. It's like they've forgotten there's the most prestigious prizes in sport at stake. If u look in the past the heavy weight division was alwAys exciting people use to get up for the big fights, and the fights use too live up too the hype. David haye has definately breathed some life into the division. But for whatever reason it still isn't what it was. I don't care what anyone says.

[Dave Hughey]

"Do you honestly think that any HW today is as fast as the likes of Ali? Or that they hit as hard as Foreman? I don't, not at all." Quote by rjj tszyu.

OK, you've dragged up Ali and Foreman. Nobody's as fast as Ali, no-one hits as hard as Foreman.

Could be true. But putting those two together is like mixing metaphors. You morph together the best of both and you get a superhuman with Ali's speed and Foreman's punch. Then you conclude this superhuman is better than the competition in the division today. Which is true, of course. But you forget about all the "less than superhuman" fighters Ali and Foreman fought, which was the competition of that era. Some weren't fat? Some weren't slow? Some couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag?

We only remember Dempsey, Louis, Foreman and Ali. We forget all the lesser lights they fought that was their competition at the time.

As far as today's fighters conditioning is concerned, most of the Russians look in good shape to me, and Haye and Chambers are, too.

I say put the 20 best of today against the 20 best of any other era and today's bunch would win 2 out of 3.

And if today's competition was given it's due, if we'd be realistic about the competition of yesterday, the Klitschko's and some of the others like Adamek and Chagaev and Dimitrenko and Hayes and Chambers would be given their due.

[ICB]

"Do you honestly think that any HW today is as fast as the likes of Ali? Or that they hit as hard as Foreman? I don't, not at all." Quote by rjj tszyu.

OK, you've dragged up Ali and Foreman. Nobody's as fast as Ali, no-one hits as hard as Foreman.

Could be true. But putting those two together is like mixing metaphors. You morph together the best of both and you get a superhuman with Ali's speed and Foreman's punch. Then you conclude this superhuman is better than the competition in the division today. Which is true, of course. But you forget about all the "less than superhuman" fighters Ali and Foreman fought, which was the competition of that era. Some weren't fat? Some weren't slow? Some couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag?

We only remember Dempsey, Louis, Foreman and Ali. We forget all the lesser lights they fought that was their competition at the time.

As far as today's fighters conditioning is concerned, most of the Russians look in good shape to me, and Haye and Chambers are, too.

I say put the 20 best of today against the 20 best of any other era and today's bunch would win 2 out of 3.

And if today's competition was given it's due, if we'd be realistic about the competition of yesterday, the Klitschko's and some of the others like Adamek and Chagaev and Dimitrenko and Hayes and Chambers would be given their due.

I don't think so somehow.

Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek