Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to hel

[DaxxKahn]

It is because there are such a run of nobodies that fizzle out faster then they got started...

It is because over the last decade every time the next big thing comes along they turn out to be a bust....It is because there always seems to be just that 1 guy who is head and shoulders above the rest and the division offers nothing competitive for us.....

EG- Sam Peter so strong, who started to show improvement after the second Toney fight...Just to become another second rate fighter who built his rep on fighters who were either past it or never were it..

Then guys who are really talented and if they came a long an era or 2 before would have excelled nicely but get blasted out due to size problems...EG Chris Byrd was a great boxer who was a TRUE heavyweight...If this was the 70's 80's or early 90's.....

We get spoiled by men like a Prime Holyfield who fought nothing but guys bigger stronger men then him as a hw and ate the shots the bigger men were landing so we EXPECT every other man his size to be able to handle the same punishment and come out on top like Evander did more often then not..

We were spoiled by men like Lewis who defeated every man he ever faced and it became understood that his losses were brought on by his own cocky attitude that caused lazy habits rather then the skill of his opp..The came back in rematches top dismantle his former conquerer....There was never any doubt who the King was...While today we have a champion that has cracked under pressure more times then he should have,,,

Our contenders and title holders come out of no where...Guys like Povetkin, Dimitrenko, Boytstov...Good fighters that have limited exposure except when they are involved in a big fight so it appears that they are nobodies to the average fan....

The world champion was someone everyone knew who they were...Guys like Tyson...Holyfield...Holmes...All had general public exposure...Guys like Spinks, Bowe were ex Olympians and had built a following there...Today at best the average person who does not really follow the sport might know about the HW championship is there are Brothers who hold it...EVERYONE knew who Tyson was, Ali, Frazier, Foreman etc

The division holds no household name nor do the contenders......For people to get excited to watch because they heard about them elsewhere....

In the 90's Guys like Golota brought attention to himself in mainstream sports as a ball punching dirty fighter and had a catchy name like "The Foul pole"

Tommy Morrison was in Movies..Ray Mercer the Ex Army Vet always a popular thing to be with fans especially military fans...

the 70's and 80's had contenders like Quarry the good Irish kid who fought anyone, Tex Cobb the guy who had little style but slugged it out until either he or the opp could not continue, Cooney the great white hope...Chuck Wepner who looked like and out of Shape balding man who works as a janitor but took Ali to the limit dropping him...Making the common man feel good about himself....

Today the division does not have the aura it once did...The fighters today are not the balls out go for broke come from behind fellow you could not help but root for....Our Champions are not ones that embrace their role as the most important athlete on earth...

At one time EVERYONE could name the HW champion...Hell if your from the 50's you would know that at one time 3 men were 3 men that EVERONE knew who they were regardless of sport they followed, profession, religon

The President, The Pope and the HW champion of the world......

[Dave Hughey]

Hi Paddy 448: I agree the Klits awe their opponents. But I think it is because they are so good, not that their opponents are so bad. They both remind me a bit of Ali with their quick reflexes. But I think they hit harder. Are they as smart? I don't know. Ali was full of surprises. But they have Ph.D's.


DaxxKahn, Hello there.

Your post was almost as long as mine, but if I get your drift, you are saying that people are tired of the HW division because the best fighters aren't flashy, they aren't American, they come from strange places no-one's ever heard of, and they are too big. I'll have to agree with you in most part. (But I've heard that in Europe people are pretty excited about the division, and they know where Kazakhistan and Uzbekhestan are and how to spell them. LOL)

I'm glad you never said the heavyweights today can't fight!

[ElTerribleMorales]

the thing is, aside from the Klitschko's, none of the HW of today would have stood a chance with prime versions of

Louis
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Lewis
Holyfield
etc.
and the Klitschko's would only stand a small chance basically due to their size advantage

[paddy448]

[QUOTE=Dave Hughey;859615]Hi Paddy 448: I agree the Klits awe their opponents. But I think it is because they are so good, not that their opponents are so bad. They both remind me a bit of Ali with their quick reflexes. But I think they hit harder. Are they as smart? I don't know. Ali was full of surprises. But they have Ph.D's.

There's no doubting the klitsckos are good. They use there size and physical attributes to great effect. And I think they would of done well in any era. I would love them to be pushed more in fights. U no see them in a real war. Are they that good that they allow this not too happen. Or is it cause their opponents r so bad. It's a strange one. I expect haye too test their metal when they meet. It will tell me alot more about them in that fight. Cause I see haye as the first real live opponent for a while. As for their reflexes being on par with Ali. I don't see it. Ali was a bit special

[Nameless]

Sure there could be fantastic and exciting fights in the HW today, a couple of them do have that potential. When we're talking about the lack of competition, we're talking about a general pool of overall talent. 2 medium or on the decline fighters can give super exciting fights. Gatti-Ward for example, these were 2 good fighters, lovely and gritty, they were good, perhaps somewhere between good and very good, but they were not excellent. Before there was a couple of excellent fighters in the HW, today, a slight handful, and the talent of the handful is far too little to win against both K (except via a shocking lucky upset perhaps). Before, you could wonder a lot about what could happen, Frasier, Foreman, Ali etc, there was some excitement, there was enough talent to make anything possible happens. Not today at the moment and that's part of the problem and what peoples do criticize and as it is often the case, we (including me) tend to spit a bit more than what we should as it is a bit of an angering situation.

[Dave Hughey]

Hi Nameless,

I can sympathize with your frustration. I was watching one of the fights on video the other night and I saw that sack of human garbage Don King sitting at ringside. That SOB has been making a lot of the fights and he twists them to make him money and power, not to entertain the fans and find out who's the best. He is a low down dirty s.o.b.

There are so many match-ups I'd like to see.

(Lyle should go back and update his post about crooked matchmaking and matches he'd like to see).

So many good matches could be made. This Heavyweight Division could sparkle and shine. It could be the best ever. The talent is there. But the match makers aren't boxing fans, they are businessmen and crooks.

Not only do the matchmakers do the sport a dis-service, but they do the boxers themselves a dis-service, too. Because the boxers themselves know the match making is crooked, and they know that they probably are not going to get the rewards they deserve.

Here is a plea, people. Don't blame the fighters. Don't run them down so much. I've watched a lot of them, and they are good. They aren't perfect, but they are good. They train, they work hard, they develop incredible skills, they fight hard. GIVE THEM SOME CREDIT. Fighting is a brutal life. One punch and you could be killed. Those guys face that fact every fight, EVERY ROUND. Some of you have fought and you know.

If you are going to blame somebody, blame those @#$%$#!&*(^)+%$#@!!!!%$!!$#%@!!! matchmakers, especially YOU KNOW WHO!!!

But, on the bright side, King was looking pretty old last time I saw him. And boxing is going to be there long after the miserable s.o.b. is dead, dead, dead.

[Dave Hughey]

Quote from ICB: I don't think so somehow.

Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek __________________

Hello ICB,

Are you sure all those fighters are from the same era? Ali fought Tunny Hunseker in 1960. He retired in 1981. Lewis' first fight was in 1989, 8 years after Ali retired. Lewis fought Klitchko in 2003, then retired. So you had to span 43 years to dredge up 5 fighters you think could beat the best 5 today. Wow! That makes this division look good, not bad! Think about it.

Realistically, a fighter's prime years are, how many? Maybe 10 to 15, max. You are choosing from three or four generations of fighters, not one. But the Klitschko's, Haye, Peter and Adamek are all from ONE generation. Not a fair comparison. Have another beer.

[0james0]

I was watching some fights on Eurosport before the Audley fight last night, one of the heavyweights was that out of shape he was out of breath walking to the ring! After 2 rounds he looked like he was gonna puke!

Last nights knockout aside, there don't seem to be many heavy weights who can really bang, certainly not enough to knock a monster of a man out, hence the reason the Klitches are unstoppable.

I'd like to see a Tyson type come through, someone with no fear and an aggresive style, happy to mix it with any Heavyweight, even though he could have fought in a lower weight class.

[ICB]

Quote from ICB: I don't think so somehow.

Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek __________________

Hello ICB,

Are you sure all those fighters are from the same era? Ali fought Tunny Hunseker in 1960. He retired in 1981. Lewis' first fight was in 1989, 8 years after Ali retired. Lewis fought Klitchko in 2003, then retired. So you had to span 43 years to dredge up 5 fighters you think could beat the best 5 today. Wow! That makes this division look good, not bad! Think about it.

Realistically, a fighter's prime years are, how many? Maybe 10 to 15, max. You are choosing from three or four generations of fighters, not one. But the Klitschko's, Haye, Peter and Adamek are all from ONE generation. Not a fair comparison. Have another beer.

Well i didn't know you meant just one era but if you insist.

90's

Lennox Lewis ----> Vitali Klitschko
Riddick Bowe ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Moorer ----> Tomasz Adamek
Ike Ibeabuchi ----> Samuel Peter
Evander Holyfield ----> Sultan Ibragimov
David Tua ----> David Haye

80's

Tim Witherspoon ----> Vitali Klitschko
Tony Tucker ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek
Mike Tyson ----> Samuel Peter
Greg Page ----> Sultan Ibragimov
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye

70's

Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
George Foreman ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Jimmy Young ----> Tomasz Adamek
Earnie Shavers ----> Samuel Peter
Ken Norton ----> Sultan Ibragimov
Joe Frazier ----> David Haye

Only about 2 matches are debatable, out of all that list.

[DaxxKahn]

Hi Paddy 448: I agree the Klits awe their opponents. But I think it is because they are so good, not that their opponents are so bad. They both remind me a bit of Ali with their quick reflexes. But I think they hit harder. Are they as smart? I don't know. Ali was full of surprises. But they have Ph.D's.


DaxxKahn, Hello there.

Your post was almost as long as mine, but if I get your drift, you are saying that people are tired of the HW division because the best fighters aren't flashy, they aren't American, they come from strange places no-one's ever heard of, and they are too big. I'll have to agree with you in most part. (But I've heard that in Europe people are pretty excited about the division, and they know where Kazakhistan and Uzbekhestan are and how to spell them. LOL)

I'm glad you never said the heavyweights today can't fight!

You had a good post mate...Good to see an opinion given besides the usual they suck or other then Klitschko what good is it etc....

I don't agree with everything you said but in Europe etc I know these guys are big deals...If they would televise these around the world (Not just the States) then fans would know what we are seeing.....

I mean a guy from Europe comes along with a 22-0 record and makes his debut in the states or UK for a title shot (lets face it the biggest audience is from the US and UK) and gets blown out then people only see a guy with an undefeated record get blown out leaving them to believe one thing..."This guy fought BS comp and got a shot because of his record and wasted everyones time"...Not too mention it makes the champion seem like he is fighting chumps....

I guess the best way to sum it up is comparing it too when the lighter weight classes have these guys from Central and South America building these huge records against cab drivers and getting title shots just to be over classed

[Dizaster]

"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...

The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...

How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??

I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....

It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...

Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...

You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..

[DaxxKahn]

"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...

The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...

How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??

I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....

It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...

Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...

You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..

Best post of the thread

[rjj tszyu]

"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...

The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...

How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??

I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....

It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...

Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...

You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..

Best post of the thread

I'll second that. Great post

[TitoFan]

"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...

The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...

How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??

I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....

It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...

Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...

You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..

Best post of the thread

I'll second that. Great post

Absolutely. Dizaster beat me to the punch (no pun intended). I don't trash today's HWs because I'm stuck in some sort of time warp where I think only the Ali's, Foreman's and Tyson's were any good. I trash them because they're by and large a bunch of fat slobs who don't train well enough to even LOOK like professional athletes, and come in with that hope that one big punch can translate into an easy title. The hell with the bunch of them!

[rjj tszyu]

"Athletes not Slobs"... That sums it up...

The perception of boxing heavyweights in the past compared to now is night and day..
They used to be the pinnacle of athleticism.. They were feared wrecking machines.. The Heavyweight division was reserved for the elite with the biggest balls, and you'd have your head ripped off if you didn't belong there.. They trained as hard as Welterweights, and were respected by other boxers, training, and the public..... Rarely did they carry in 30 or 40 extra pounds of burger fat into the ring.. They would have been laughed out of their if they did...
When two top heavyweights met in the past, it was the equivalent of two colossal giants stepping in the ring together.. The best of the best. The savage of the most savage. Monster against Monster... Peak athlete against Peak athlete.. And their fights would go down in history as some of the greatest...

How many fights in the Heavyweight division of the last 10 years are going to go down in history as Classics for the future generations to look back on, and wish with all their heart that "Damn, I wish I was there for that fight"..??

I have no idea how anyone can say that the Heavyweight division is anything like that of even 15 years ago.... The money could still be HUGE for the heavyweight division if it had the characters and athletes there to draw the general public into its drama... But it just doesn't.. It doesn't have those savage, wrecking ball animals who inspire fear, awe, and respect from everyone around them....

It mostly just has boxers who are too big or fat, or both, to fight in lower divisions where unless you come in in the best shape of your freakin life, you may as well go home before the opening bell rings...

Sure there are good fighters in the HW division and you do see some good scraps.. But the HW division was never just about a good scrap.. You can see a good scrap at straw weight if that is all your looking for... The HW division was about awe for the absolute best of the best who left no pushup undone, no step of roadword not completed, and they came in like hungry, primed gladiators ready for war, while the whole world looked on with it's breath held...

You have to feel for the klitschko's who were just born 20 years to late.. They will be known for dominating the Heavyweight division, but won't have the glory of fighting in the Heavyweight division when it was the gladatorial battlefied that it was once known as..

Best post of the thread

I'll second that. Great post