Why do I keep hearing the same old refrain: "The heavyweight division has gone to hel

[Dave Hughey]

Hi Nameless,

I can sympathize with your frustration. I was watching one of the fights on video the other night and I saw that sack of human garbage Don King sitting at ringside. That SOB has been making a lot of the fights and he twists them to make him money and power, not to entertain the fans and find out who's the best. He is a low down dirty s.o.b.

There are so many match-ups I'd like to see.

(Lyle should go back and update his post about crooked matchmaking and matches he'd like to see).

So many good matches could be made. This Heavyweight Division could sparkle and shine. It could be the best ever. The talent is there. But the match makers aren't boxing fans, they are businessmen and crooks.

Not only do the matchmakers do the sport a dis-service, but they do the boxers themselves a dis-service, too. Because the boxers themselves know the match making is crooked, and they know that they probably are not going to get the rewards they deserve.

Here is a plea, people. Don't blame the fighters. Don't run them down so much. I've watched a lot of them, and they are good. They aren't perfect, but they are good. They train, they work hard, they develop incredible skills, they fight hard. GIVE THEM SOME CREDIT. Fighting is a brutal life. One punch and you could be killed. Those guys face that fact every fight, EVERY ROUND. Some of you have fought and you know.

If you are going to blame somebody, blame those @#$%$#!&*(^)+%$#@!!!!%$!!$#%@!!! matchmakers, especially YOU KNOW WHO!!!

But, on the bright side, King was looking pretty old last time I saw him. And boxing is going to be there long after the miserable s.o.b. is dead, dead, dead.

[Dave Hughey]

Quote from ICB: I don't think so somehow.

Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek __________________

Hello ICB,

Are you sure all those fighters are from the same era? Ali fought Tunny Hunseker in 1960. He retired in 1981. Lewis' first fight was in 1989, 8 years after Ali retired. Lewis fought Klitchko in 2003, then retired. So you had to span 43 years to dredge up 5 fighters you think could beat the best 5 today. Wow! That makes this division look good, not bad! Think about it.

Realistically, a fighter's prime years are, how many? Maybe 10 to 15, max. You are choosing from three or four generations of fighters, not one. But the Klitschko's, Haye, Peter and Adamek are all from ONE generation. Not a fair comparison. Have another beer.

[0james0]

I was watching some fights on Eurosport before the Audley fight last night, one of the heavyweights was that out of shape he was out of breath walking to the ring! After 2 rounds he looked like he was gonna puke!

Last nights knockout aside, there don't seem to be many heavy weights who can really bang, certainly not enough to knock a monster of a man out, hence the reason the Klitches are unstoppable.

I'd like to see a Tyson type come through, someone with no fear and an aggresive style, happy to mix it with any Heavyweight, even though he could have fought in a lower weight class.

[ICB]

Quote from ICB: I don't think so somehow.

Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye
George Foreman ----> Samuel Peter
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek __________________

Hello ICB,

Are you sure all those fighters are from the same era? Ali fought Tunny Hunseker in 1960. He retired in 1981. Lewis' first fight was in 1989, 8 years after Ali retired. Lewis fought Klitchko in 2003, then retired. So you had to span 43 years to dredge up 5 fighters you think could beat the best 5 today. Wow! That makes this division look good, not bad! Think about it.

Realistically, a fighter's prime years are, how many? Maybe 10 to 15, max. You are choosing from three or four generations of fighters, not one. But the Klitschko's, Haye, Peter and Adamek are all from ONE generation. Not a fair comparison. Have another beer.

Well i didn't know you meant just one era but if you insist.

90's

Lennox Lewis ----> Vitali Klitschko
Riddick Bowe ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Moorer ----> Tomasz Adamek
Ike Ibeabuchi ----> Samuel Peter
Evander Holyfield ----> Sultan Ibragimov
David Tua ----> David Haye

80's

Tim Witherspoon ----> Vitali Klitschko
Tony Tucker ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Spinks ----> Tomasz Adamek
Mike Tyson ----> Samuel Peter
Greg Page ----> Sultan Ibragimov
Larry Holmes ----> David Haye

70's

Muhammad Ali ----> Vitali Klitschko
George Foreman ----> Wladimir Klitschko
Jimmy Young ----> Tomasz Adamek
Earnie Shavers ----> Samuel Peter
Ken Norton ----> Sultan Ibragimov
Joe Frazier ----> David Haye

Only about 2 matches are debatable, out of all that list.

[Truth]

Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"

[ICB]

Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"

I think your delusional personally, if these Heavyweights are so better, why are most of them out of shape and slow ? with all the modern training, there slower and have less stamina.

So if the boxers in the old days, are faster and have better stamina. Without the modern training doesn't that make them look even better ?

The fact that a 46 year old 6'2 Evander Holyfield, was able to beat one of the modern Heavyweight champions, in Nikolai Valuev who is 7'0. But Evander Holyfield was robbed of a decision, tells me that size isn't always better.

Also why do the Heavyweights, lack excitement if there so much better ? and why doesn't any normal armchair fan even know who the hell the Heavyweight champion currently is ?

[generalbulldog]

Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"

I think your delusional personally, if these Heavyweights are so better, why are most of them out of shape and slow ? with all the modern training, there slower and have less stamina.

So if the boxers in the old days, are faster and have better stamina. Without the modern training doesn't that make them look even better ?

The fact that a 46 year old 6'2 Evander Holyfield, was able to beat one of the modern Heavyweight champions, in Nikolai Valuev who is 7'0. But Evander Holyfield was robbed of a decision, tells me that size isn't always better.

Also why do the Heavyweights, lack excitement if there so much better ? and why doesn't any normal armchair fan even know who the hell the Heavyweight champion currently is ?

They do, in Germany and Eastern Europe. You're looking at it from a Brit viewpoint which many Americans also shared with you, but not the general consensus whatever.

I know this might be shocking, but there is an entire world out there besides your homeland. Shocking ain't it?

[ICB]

Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"

I think your delusional personally, if these Heavyweights are so better, why are most of them out of shape and slow ? with all the modern training, there slower and have less stamina.

So if the boxers in the old days, are faster and have better stamina. Without the modern training doesn't that make them look even better ?

The fact that a 46 year old 6'2 Evander Holyfield, was able to beat one of the modern Heavyweight champions, in Nikolai Valuev who is 7'0. But Evander Holyfield was robbed of a decision, tells me that size isn't always better.

Also why do the Heavyweights, lack excitement if there so much better ? and why doesn't any normal armchair fan even know who the hell the Heavyweight champion currently is ?

They do, in Germany and Eastern Europe. You're looking at it from a Brit viewpoint which many Americans also shared with you, but not the general consensus whatever.

I know this might be shocking, but there is an entire world out there besides your homeland. Shocking ain't it?

Well all i know is when i was younger, everyone knew who the Heavyweight champion was. Yes of course in Germany and ETC, they will be popular. Because how many times have they had a Heavyweight to root for ? probably not since Axel Schulz in the 90's.

And yes i am looking at it from a Brit point of view, what way am i supposed to look at it ? i remember back in the day, how exciting it was watching the big Heavyweight fights, and all the hype it used to get.

Now no one even cares or knows anything about the Heavyweight division, except what that read in the paper about David Haye. Yes im talking about Britian because im sharing how much it has changed over here.

And i bet if you done a poll worldwide, if people thought whether or not the Heavyweight division is popular. Well i think we can safely say they would all mostly agree with me, even hardcore boxing fans get bored to fuck watching Heavyweight fights now, so can you imagine armchair fans ?

[TitoFan]

Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"

Kind of narrow-minded reasoning, if you ask me. I think people would love to see more athletic, skilled, charismatic heavyweights going at it... regardless of their nationality.

[generalbulldog]

Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"

Kind of narrow-minded reasoning, if you ask me. I think people would love to see more athletic, skilled, charismatic heavyweights going at it... regardless of their nationality.

Exactly. Let's say if there was an HW version of a prime Duran, I'm pretty sure he would be very popular amongst casual and hardcore boxing fans and the general public in America.

[Dave Hughey]

Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"

Truth, you make some good points. I'm not sure that America can't still produce some great boxers, though. If the money's there, why not?

[Dave Hughey]

Anyone who thinks the heavyweights of years past are better then the current ones are simply delusional. Look at the NFL great lineman used to be 6' 260 lbs now they're 6'6 310 lbs modern nutrition and modern training have played a huge role in our advances in sports. The problem people have with the heavyweight division today are
1)The Klitschko's are too dominant
2)American kids are less likely than ever to get involved in boxing
3No current boxer has had close to the charisma or star appeal of Heavyweights from the "golden era's"

One other thing, Truth. Here's why I asked you why America can't produce another great heavyweight. All we need is another heavyweight champion who can beat the best there is in the world if we want the average Joe America to know what the Champ's name is. Hype won't do it. Charisma won't do it. Only winning will do it. And with winning there will come charisma. Face it, we'll never have another Ali. God only made one of those.

If we want the average Joe to know who the heavyweight champ is, we need another great Champ. The problem is not the hype. If the fighter is winning, the fans and media will supply the hype. My God, look at Marciano. Can you remember anything he ever said or did (outside the ring)? But did the fans love him? Does he have charisma now?

So, say it ain't so that America can't produce another great Champ.

[TitoFan]

Does it have to be "America" to produce the next great HW champion for the division to be hugely popular again? I should sure hope the hell not. I'll state my point again: Boxing is an INTERNATIONAL sport. There's great boxers from every corner of the world. If America can embrace fighters from other countries in other weight divisions, it can sure embrace foreign HWs as well.

[Dave Hughey]

Does it have to be "America" to produce the next great HW champion for the division to be hugely popular again? I should sure hope the hell not. I'll state my point again: Boxing is an INTERNATIONAL sport. There's great boxers from every corner of the world. If America can embrace fighters from other countries in other weight divisions, it can sure embrace foreign HWs as well.

Hi Tito,

He has to be American to be popular in America, of course! Ali said it best, "I am the King of the World". Americans are not going to be happy unless the "King of the World" is an American. The King of the World is in Europe right now, and the Europeans are enjoying every moment of it while the Americans are moping.

[Truth]

All I'm saying is Americans love to cheer for someone who is their "type". This is generalizing but someone who is loud, confident and a bit brash. Not too multilingual quiet Ukrainian brothers with PHDs. If Haye were to become the undisputed champ they'd love it because it fits their mold. I'm not saying it's correct or fair its just the way it is. We rank the state of boxing by how it does in the USA. Of course the Americans can still produce great champions it's just that their talent pool has been depleted as of late.