is it actually possible for a heavyweight to ever be the p4p #1??

[Dave Hughey]

OK. It's not really a guessing game or matter of opinion. Here's the actual mathematical formula used to figure the P4P ratings.

P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF

Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.

It's designed that way so you don't have to consider weight classes. So of course the heavyweights can be rated pound for pound.

p4p

Pretty sure level of opposition comes into it somewhere. That'll be why you have Wlad and Vitali up there.

Of course. Silly me. I forgot the last part of the formula.

It should read:
P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF
ARO


Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.
ARO = average ranking of opponents fought

Individual opponent ranking is figured as:

The individual opponent's ranking in his weight class X the average weight of the class of the opponent. (for instance, the light heavyweight division is 160 -175 pounds. That divided by 2 equals 167.5). The heavyweight division rating is set at an estimated average of all the ranked heavyweights. This is usually set at 220 pounds these days. (I guess it is considered legitimate to forget about Valuev, LOL).

[skel1983]

OK. It's not really a guessing game or matter of opinion. Here's the actual mathematical formula used to figure the P4P ratings.

P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF

Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.

It's designed that way so you don't have to consider weight classes. So of course the heavyweights can be rated pound for pound.

p4p

Pretty sure level of opposition comes into it somewhere. That'll be why you have Wlad and Vitali up there.

Of course. Silly me. I forgot the last part of the formula.

It should read:
P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF
ARO


Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.
ARO = average ranking of opponents fought

Individual opponent ranking is figured as:

The individual opponent's ranking in his weight class X the average weight of the class of the opponent. (for instance, the light heavyweight division is 160 -175 pounds. That divided by 2 equals 167.5). The heavyweight division rating is set at an estimated average of all the ranked heavyweights. This is usually set at 220 pounds these days. (I guess it is considered legitimate to forget about Valuev, LOL).

Dave is that you by any chance??

[Kev]

I think heavyweights should be part of the p4p equation.

I mean in MMA Fedor Emelianenko is considered by everybody to be in the top 1-3 p4p. It would be frankly absurd to have a UFC p4p ranking without him in it

@Fenster, I personally find the issue of whether Wlad and Vitali's height helps them or not to be irelevent.

Nobody argues that Mike Tyson should be downgraded because his punching power gave him an unfair edge, or that Pacquaio would not be beating guys if he wasn't so naturally fast. All of the strengths and weaknesses of a fighter are a largely part of their genetically inherited makeup and whether a fighter wins because he is freakishly tall, or has freakishly good stamina is neither here or there, as long as both are using their attributes and gifts to win the big fights that's all that matters.

[Dave Hughey]

Pretty sure level of opposition comes into it somewhere. That'll be why you have Wlad and Vitali up there.

Of course. Silly me. I forgot the last part of the formula.

It should read:
P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF
ARO


Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.
ARO = average ranking of opponents fought

Individual opponent ranking is figured as:

The individual opponent's ranking in his weight class X the average weight of the class of the opponent. (for instance, the light heavyweight division is 160 -175 pounds. That divided by 2 equals 167.5). The heavyweight division rating is set at an estimated average of all the ranked heavyweights. This is usually set at 220 pounds these days. (I guess it is considered legitimate to forget about Valuev, LOL).

Dave is that you by any chance??

I don't think so, Skel. This guy is ugly as sin.

[Majesty]

Well the thing is, I don't think they should be on the p4p lists.

Because they both refuse to fight the most dominant heavyweight in their division and that is each other. Until one of them fights or beats the other one and they are both champs they won't be p4p

[Kev]

Well the thing is, I don't think they should be on the p4p lists.

Because they both refuse to fight the most dominant heavyweight in their division and that is each other. Until one of them fights or beats the other one and they are both champs they won't be p4p

That IS a good point!

[jahmez]

The reason why heavyweights are dominated by lower weights in the P4P list is based on the assumption that they can rely more on strength, power and the vast differences in height, weight and reach that can be found in their division and that if they could not rely on these attributes in a hypothetical fight with the lower weight fighters at the same weight class than they would have more of a chance of losing.

[Dave Hughey]

The reason why heavyweights are dominated by lower weights in the P4P list is based on the assumption that they can rely more on strength, power and the vast differences in height, weight and reach that can be found in their division and that if they could not rely on these attributes in a hypothetical fight with the lower weight fighters at the same weight class than they would ave more of a chance of losing.

Rather than guess how the P4P rankings are arrived at, why don't you just consult the formula used?

It should read:

P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF
ARO


Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.
ARO = average ranking of opponents fought

Individual opponent ranking is figured as:

The individual opponent's ranking in his weight class X the average weight of the class of the opponent. (for instance, the light heavyweight division is 160 -175 pounds. That divided by 2 equals 167.5). The heavyweight division rating is set at an estimated average of all the ranked heavyweights. This is usually set at 220 pounds these days. (I guess it is considered legitimate to forget about Valuev, LOL).

[killersheep]

The reason why heavyweights are dominated by lower weights in the P4P list is based on the assumption that they can rely more on strength, power and the vast differences in height, weight and reach that can be found in their division and that if they could not rely on these attributes in a hypothetical fight with the lower weight fighters at the same weight class than they would ave more of a chance of losing.

Rather than guess how the P4P rankings are arrived at, why don't you just consult the formula used?

It should read:

P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF
ARO


Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.
ARO = average ranking of opponents fought

Individual opponent ranking is figured as:

The individual opponent's ranking in his weight class X the average weight of the class of the opponent. (for instance, the light heavyweight division is 160 -175 pounds. That divided by 2 equals 167.5). The heavyweight division rating is set at an estimated average of all the ranked heavyweights. This is usually set at 220 pounds these days. (I guess it is considered legitimate to forget about Valuev, LOL).

Ok show an example say Albert Sosnowski, Sergio Martinez and Ivan Calderon, I'm not sure how you get the ARO, are you relying on the boxrec ratings? Also is the WO an average over the entire career (same with WF)?

[Kev]

The reason why heavyweights are dominated by lower weights in the P4P list is based on the assumption that they can rely more on strength, power and the vast differences in height, weight and reach that can be found in their division and that if they could not rely on these attributes in a hypothetical fight with the lower weight fighters at the same weight class than they would ave more of a chance of losing.

Rather than guess how the P4P rankings are arrived at, why don't you just consult the formula used?

It should read:

P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF
ARO


Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.
ARO = average ranking of opponents fought

Individual opponent ranking is figured as:

The individual opponent's ranking in his weight class X the average weight of the class of the opponent. (for instance, the light heavyweight division is 160 -175 pounds. That divided by 2 equals 167.5). The heavyweight division rating is set at an estimated average of all the ranked heavyweights. This is usually set at 220 pounds these days. (I guess it is considered legitimate to forget about Valuev, LOL).

Aside from confirming you as the biggest geek on the board (well done by the way) this formula is irelevent as it's clearly not how The Ring makes its rankings.

Maybe the boxrec system works this way but the Ring is clearly based on the purely subjective opinions of its staff and voting panel.

Nonito Donaire for example can't possibly be even in the Top 10 according to this formula, seeing as he has never beaten a p4p ranked fighter (Darchinyan was only p4p after beating Mijares and Arce) and has only ever fought a single fighter who has ever held a world title.

What's even more crazy is that even since Vic has been taken out of the p4p rankings Donaire contiinues to climb further up, on the back of other fighters wins, i.e Hopkins beats Jones so he drops a place to Donaire who hasn't even fought since February.

There is no formula for such bullshit decisions, it's just incompetence or favouritism.

Wlad would be right up there according to any formula imo.

[ono]

OK. It's not really a guessing game or matter of opinion. Here's the actual mathematical formula used to figure the P4P ratings.

P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF

Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.

It's designed that way so you don't have to consider weight classes. So of course the heavyweights can be rated pound for pound.

p4p

Pretty sure level of opposition comes into it somewhere. That'll be why you have Wlad and Vitali up there.

Of course. Silly me. I forgot the last part of the formula.

It should read:
P4P = {(FW - FL) / TF} X WO / WF
ARO


Where:

P4P = pound for pound rating
FW = fights won
FL = fights lost
TF = total fights
WO = weight of opponent (at weigh-in)
WF = weight of fighter being rated.
ARO = average ranking of opponents fought

Individual opponent ranking is figured as:

The individual opponent's ranking in his weight class X the average weight of the class of the opponent. (for instance, the light heavyweight division is 160 -175 pounds. That divided by 2 equals 167.5). The heavyweight division rating is set at an estimated average of all the ranked heavyweights. This is usually set at 220 pounds these days. (I guess it is considered legitimate to forget about Valuev, LOL).

Is it Ring magazine rankings?