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Thread: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking
    Quote Originally Posted by cockey cockney
    Oscar has the better legacy without doubt imo.
    Me too... Theres always the arguement, that DLH beat Trinidad's left overs... But he also fought quite a few great fighters than Trinidad didn't, who were certainly as good as anyone Trinidad ever beat, like Quartey, Mosley, Chavez and Hernandez... Oscar fought in more weight divisions and started his career smaller, although he was obviously naturally bigger than a lightweight. Then of course, the real issue is their fight with each other, in which DLH was shown to be a superior boxer, imo. He screwed up in strategy, and that fight set a precident which is hard to argue with, you can't just run the championship rounds, and take the belts.. But it's not as if Tito was beating him up those rounds, he couldn't catch DLH when he was boxing, or when he wasn't... It was Oscar who blew that fight though, and if not for that, this would not even be a question that anyone would raise, imo.
    I'll give you Quartey and Mosely, but you can take Chavez off that list. Oscar never fought him at his best. Oscar fought a faded ex champion-twice and didn't always looks so good. And Oscar was a superior boxer, but became known as the Chicken because of his RUNNING, something Trinidad never did. And lets not forget that Oscar took a dive against Hopkins, a prearranged deal that included B-Hop and Oscar working together as promoters.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rican
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking
    Quote Originally Posted by cockey cockney
    Oscar has the better legacy without doubt imo.
    Me too... Theres always the arguement, that DLH beat Trinidad's left overs... But he also fought quite a few great fighters than Trinidad didn't, who were certainly as good as anyone Trinidad ever beat, like Quartey, Mosley, Chavez and Hernandez... Oscar fought in more weight divisions and started his career smaller, although he was obviously naturally bigger than a lightweight. Then of course, the real issue is their fight with each other, in which DLH was shown to be a superior boxer, imo. He screwed up in strategy, and that fight set a precident which is hard to argue with, you can't just run the championship rounds, and take the belts.. But it's not as if Tito was beating him up those rounds, he couldn't catch DLH when he was boxing, or when he wasn't... It was Oscar who blew that fight though, and if not for that, this would not even be a question that anyone would raise, imo.
    I'll give you Quartey and Mosely, but you can take Chavez off that list. Oscar never fought him at his best. Oscar fought a faded ex champion-twice and didn't always looks so good. And Oscar was a superior boxer, but became known as the Chicken because of his RUNNING, something Trinidad never did. And lets not forget that Oscar took a dive against Hopkins, a prearranged deal that included B-Hop and Oscar working together as promoters.
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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rican
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking
    Quote Originally Posted by cockey cockney
    Oscar has the better legacy without doubt imo.
    Me too... Theres always the arguement, that DLH beat Trinidad's left overs... But he also fought quite a few great fighters than Trinidad didn't, who were certainly as good as anyone Trinidad ever beat, like Quartey, Mosley, Chavez and Hernandez... Oscar fought in more weight divisions and started his career smaller, although he was obviously naturally bigger than a lightweight. Then of course, the real issue is their fight with each other, in which DLH was shown to be a superior boxer, imo. He screwed up in strategy, and that fight set a precident which is hard to argue with, you can't just run the championship rounds, and take the belts.. But it's not as if Tito was beating him up those rounds, he couldn't catch DLH when he was boxing, or when he wasn't... It was Oscar who blew that fight though, and if not for that, this would not even be a question that anyone would raise, imo.
    I'll give you Quartey and Mosely, but you can take Chavez off that list. Oscar never fought him at his best. Oscar fought a faded ex champion-twice and didn't always looks so good. And Oscar was a superior boxer, but became known as the Chicken because of his RUNNING, something Trinidad never did. And lets not forget that Oscar took a dive against Hopkins, a prearranged deal that included B-Hop and Oscar working together as promoters.
    wow...sounds like someone is upset......ODLH destroyed an aging Chavez....whipped TITO and you say he took a dive in the B-HOP fight....you must have 10 foot arms reaching for stuff against ODLH like that....
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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by killersheep
    ODLH will have the greater legacy, as he is a total household name everyone even non-boxing fans know who he is he has continued to promote boxing and will for a very long time, I guess what I'm saying is memorability would define for me the "greater legacy"
    who will our kids know??....ODLH.....Tito will be forgotten in 10 years and GBP will be bringing up promising fighters and ODLH will still be in the limelight.....Tito will be doing guest appearances at Middle schools and regional stores back in PR....
    It feels good to be back home.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Probably De La Hoya because he won titles at six weight classes (if you count the WBO) and history always favours the guys with star appeal more so than the guys who were in the same era, and as good.

    Just look at Ray Leonard.

    Also, most will remember how Oscar dominated Tito for much of their fight, and only lost because of his own terrible late round game-plan rather than anything Trinidad did. And that was at Oscars fourth weight class.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by bigragu
    Quote Originally Posted by killersheep
    ODLH will have the greater legacy, as he is a total household name everyone even non-boxing fans know who he is he has continued to promote boxing and will for a very long time, I guess what I'm saying is memorability would define for me the "greater legacy"
    who will our kids know??....ODLH.....Tito will be forgotten in 10 years and GBP will be bringing up promising fighters and ODLH will still be in the limelight.....Tito will be doing guest appearances at Middle schools and regional stores back in PR....
    The average person may forget Felix Trinidad in 10 to 15 years but boxing fanatics like us will never forget him, he gave us many brilliant performances. He has royal status in PR. Never was a big Oscar fan but I never saw a boxer have star power like him, not even Leonard had that kind of attention in the sport. I would pick Oscar if he had one brilliant performance in his mega fights, but he never did that. Never remember being more shocked than when I heard the scorecard for the first Mosley fight, split decision? Shane won at least 8 rounds of that fight! That's star power.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mac10
    Probably De La Hoya because he won titles at six weight classes (if you count the WBO) and history always favours the guys with star appeal more so than the guys who were in the same era, and as good.

    Just look at Ray Leonard.

    Also, most will remember how Oscar dominated Tito for much of their fight, and only lost because of his own terrible late round game-plan rather than anything Trinidad did. And that was at Oscars fourth weight class.
    yeah....you lose cred when the other fighter loses the fight more than you win it......Taylor/B-HOP ring any bells?...
    It feels good to be back home.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by gbrandon
    Quote Originally Posted by bigragu
    Quote Originally Posted by killersheep
    ODLH will have the greater legacy, as he is a total household name everyone even non-boxing fans know who he is he has continued to promote boxing and will for a very long time, I guess what I'm saying is memorability would define for me the "greater legacy"
    who will our kids know??....ODLH.....Tito will be forgotten in 10 years and GBP will be bringing up promising fighters and ODLH will still be in the limelight.....Tito will be doing guest appearances at Middle schools and regional stores back in PR....
    The average person may forget Felix Trinidad in 10 to 15 years but boxing fanatics like us will never forget him, he gave us many brilliant performances. He has royal status in PR. Never was a big Oscar fan but I never saw a boxer have star power like him, not even Leonard had that kind of attention in the sport. I would pick Oscar if he had one brilliant performance in his mega fights, but he never did that. Never remember being more shocked than when I heard the scorecard for the first Mosley fight, split decision? Shane won at least 8 rounds of that fight! That's star power.
    It s not pure boxing greatness that gets you over...It's the PUBLIC opinion that stands...It's the fans/writers/critics that write books and promote DVD's etc....ODLH will become a LEGEND before it's all over....He will join the ranks of Leonard and Ali.....as far as marketability and notoriety...
    It feels good to be back home.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    I think the fact that every time Tito lost that he gave up and retired tarnished his legacy a bit i mean you gotta show more heart than that especially with only 2 losses ! thats nothing ...Tito unfortunatly was a result of POOR training ..His dad was a POOR trainer and never adjusted TITO technically to the demands of the middle wieght division Tito never even lifted a wieght because most Puerto Ricans as i am a Puerto Rican boxer believe that lifting any wieght will make you slow and sluggish...which is wrong ..Tito couldnt handle bigger guess who are stronger and do some lifting like B-hop and Winky or lets say for instance Jermain Taylor even Oscar has some weight training in his camp.....
    The fact is if Trinidad had better guidance and training from lets say emanual stewart or something like that he would have gone down as one of the greatest middle wieghts of all time he was already arguably one of the greatest because of his power in both hands and speed but was poor in the areas where his Daddy was supposed to be teaching him ...its really a shame

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    oscars legacy is greater---for alot of reasons

    as a fighter he was the first to completely undress tito and proved he was the far superior fighter --regardless if tito got a bullshit decision

    in addition tito has been annhiliated 2x by hop and winky in completely one sided fashion............dlh has been hugely competitive in every fight he's been in............2 losses were clear wins, the first fight against mos was a split dec that i had a draw and he was up on 1 of 3 cards when hop starched him with a freak bodyshot............he had no business at middle anyway

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by LawHoops
    oscars legacy is greater---for alot of reasons

    as a fighter he was the first to completely undress tito and proved he was the far superior fighter --regardless if tito got a bullshit decision

    in addition tito has been annhiliated 2x by hop and winky in completely one sided fashion............dlh has been hugely competitive in every fight he's been in............2 losses were clear wins, the first fight against mos was a split dec that i had a draw and he was up on 1 of 3 cards when hop starched him with a freak bodyshot............he had no business at middle anyway
    It sounds like you don't want to give Tito any credit at all. When I started this thread I knew that Oscar would have an advantage because of star power but this has been totally onesided. I voted for Tito but I didn't expect a route.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    oscar--oscar exposed trinidad so then b-hop outclassed and outboxed the invincible trinidad--leaving a nice 1 on his undefeated record

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rican
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking
    Quote Originally Posted by cockey cockney
    Oscar has the better legacy without doubt imo.
    Me too... Theres always the arguement, that DLH beat Trinidad's left overs... But he also fought quite a few great fighters than Trinidad didn't, who were certainly as good as anyone Trinidad ever beat, like Quartey, Mosley, Chavez and Hernandez... Oscar fought in more weight divisions and started his career smaller, although he was obviously naturally bigger than a lightweight. Then of course, the real issue is their fight with each other, in which DLH was shown to be a superior boxer, imo. He screwed up in strategy, and that fight set a precident which is hard to argue with, you can't just run the championship rounds, and take the belts.. But it's not as if Tito was beating him up those rounds, he couldn't catch DLH when he was boxing, or when he wasn't... It was Oscar who blew that fight though, and if not for that, this would not even be a question that anyone would raise, imo.
    I'll give you Quartey and Mosely, but you can take Chavez off that list. Oscar never fought him at his best. Oscar fought a faded ex champion-twice and didn't always looks so good. And Oscar was a superior boxer, but became known as the Chicken because of his RUNNING, something Trinidad never did. And lets not forget that Oscar took a dive against Hopkins, a prearranged deal that included B-Hop and Oscar working together as promoters.

    All I said, was that Chavez was as good as anyone Trinidad ever BEAT.... Im pretty sure he was in the top 3 p4p easily when he lost to Oscar the first time... And Trinidad also took a dive against Hopkins, Bhop has given him 20% of all the money he has made since that fight, because Tito went in and acted like he got completely outboxed for 11 rounds and pretended to get stopped in the 12th.. Cuz Hopkins sucks, and there's no way he could actually Ko a natural welterweight.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Every time I see a thread like this, I'm just going to paste the following article:

    Quote Originally Posted by miles
    www.eastsideboxing.com

    12.05.06 - By Bryce Wren, photo by David Martin Warr / DKP -- It started in 1994, when Felix Trinidad pounded out a unanimous decision against former multiple weight division champion Hector “Macho” Camacho. Little could the Puerto Rican slugger know that he had began paving the path to over a decade of “follow the leader” between the ropes. Trinidad had shown exactly how to beat Hector, -who was starting to decline as a fighter by that time- and a certain “golden boy” took note. It would be three years later that Oscar De la Hoya would finally feel comfortable in the knowledge that Macho Man’s speed and reflexes had all but perished, to finally fight Camacho. Much like Trinidad, Oscar was on offense and pressed Camacho. The unanimous decision was equally as one sided.

    Also in 1994, Trinidad fought two other very talented former perennial contenders in Navajoa Mexico’s Yuri Boy Campas, and Detroit Cities, Oba Carr. Trinidad dominated and stopped them both, in the 4th and 8th rounds respectively.

    In the middle of 1999, Oscar would get up the nerve to challenge Oba. Remarkably, it would take a lot more of a decline in Campas before Oscar would challenge the geriatric power puncher. De la Hoya waited for Yuri Boy to suffer four more stoppage losses and several more wearing wars before he would fight Campas. Unbelievably, even though many of Trinidad’s opponents were said to have been “ruined” by him, Tito had managed to stop both Carr and Campas sooner than the “Golden Boy” could. Taking four and eight rounds for Tito to seven and eleven for Oscar. These three fights would not be a short trend. De la Hoya would continue eating from Trinidad’s scraps for another ten years.

    Fernando Vargas is a prime example of a talented fighter that was “ruined” by Felix. Maybe “ruined” is a bit harsh. He was “damaged”, anyway. He took an enormous beating by Trinidad, and even with a potential grudge fight with the Ferocious One, Oscar had to wait for a few tune ups from Vargas to ensure he was “shot” before taking him on in 2002.

    Now clearly Oscar forgot the plan when he challenged former middleweight king Bernard Hopkins in 2004. I mean yes, this was a former Trinidad opponent, but Oscar should know, “you don’t fight the guys who win!”. Oscar learned the hard way, just as it was a given that any man Trinidad could walk through, could probably be out pointed or stopped later in a fight by De la Hoya, so did it go that anyone talented and powerful enough to beat Trinidad by an all night beat down could probably also stop Oscar earlier, with a lot less punishment. As if Tito’s victory decision over Oscar didn’t punctuate his superiority over his talented East Los Angeles rival, this just seemed to add more and more credence to the obvious conclusion. Trinidad was just better.

    This past Saturday was just another chapter in the boxing version of “Beaches” with Oscar following Trinidad around singing “You are the wind beneath my wings”. Trinidad looked incredible during his first comeback fight in 2004 against tough slugger Ricardo Mayorga. Mayorga let his macho attitude get the best of him against Tito, and proved to be a fool by sticking out his chin for Tito to test. Trinidad obliged and hit Mayorga with two incredibly hard left hooks which the Nicaraguan never recovered from. It was impressive. It was also no surprise when the HBO crew aptly pointed out time and time again that the Golden Boy, Oscar De la Hoya, once again, was borrowing straight from the book, Felix Trinidad’s game plan for beating Ricardo Mayorga. Indeed, Everything from the way Oscar held his hands, to the way he threw his left hook was nearly a mirror image of what Felix had done in 2004.

    Yes, it seems Oscar is completely obsessed with Trinidad. Hell, he even moved to Puerto Rico, Trinidad’s beloved homeland. I think a rematch, even now that Trinidad has re-re-retired would probably still be the largest payday for both men. I’m not sure that Oscar would have done any better against the Winky Wright that Tito was schooled by. So based on their last top level opponents, Hopkins and Mayorga, it seems that Trinidad is at least on par with the Golden Boy. Lets call for the rematch. I think both of them feel like there is unfinished business. Oscar isn’t capable of running for six rounds anymore, so we are guaranteed to see more fireworks. What does anybody have to lose? Let’s get it on!

    Game, set, match.

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    Default Re: Trinidad Vs De La Hoya! Who will have the greater legacy

    Oscar hands down. No one ever had an easy time with Oscar. The same can't be said of Trinidad.

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