Just how good was Ray Leonard?

[Bookkeeper]

How can someone say SRL is overated. The only reason he lost to Duran the first time was because he wanted to trade with him instead of boxing, we have seen fighters make that mistake before (Meldric Taylor). But he came back and clearly outboxed Duran in the second fight, you could see who the better boxer was. Second off it does not matter if Tommy Hearns was up on the scorecard, KO's count in boxing, it's the goal of every fighter to KO their opponent. It was a mega fight and for Leonard to score a KO is simply brilliant, specially over someone the caliber of Hearns (Undefeated). Third is the Hagler fight where niether fighter was impressive, it was a lackluster fight that did not live up to the hype. Hagler dominated that division in even though I scored the fight in favor of Hagler in a close decision his performance in that fight was poor and he should have dominated. Leonard beat every legion in that generation (Near his weight) so whoever believes that he was not a great fighter should not even be debating on this forum because their knowledge of fighting his very poor. Like Wacko said don't let your emotions take over, call it like you see it not what you want it to be.

One last thing, Leonard Vs Hearns 2 took place years beyond their prime, and the fight was built on the two boxer's legacy. Hearns should have one on points, but why is it such a big deal. You saw what happened in their prime. If Roy Jones fought Evander Holyfield and outboxed him but lost a decision would it make a difference. NO!

[Wacko3205]

gbrandon.

Good post...but I still think that Hagler did enough to win.

Heh heh heh.

Fwock emotions!!! SRL can suck my balls! Heh heh heh heh.

GOAT my ass!!!

[Bookkeeper]

gbrandon.

Good post...but I still think that Hagler did enough to win.

Heh heh heh.

Fwock emotions!!! SRL can suck my balls! Heh heh heh heh.

GOAT my a**!!!

CC back, and for the record I believe Hagler should have one a close decision, it upset me when he left boxing because the only people he hurt by doing that was himself and his fans.

[chamiley]

I noticed there are a few people that rate SRL very highly and those who think he is totally overated...So i wanted to see what the rest of the board think. IMO he is one of the best p4p fighters ever.

Def a p4p great, but his career had flaws. Credit to him for winning the first fight with Hearns, but the first 13.5 rounds of that showed one of 2 things. How great Hearns was, ro that Leonards was 'slightly' overrrated. A fighter who is schooled in their prime raises question marks imo.

That said, he won the fight so what do I know!!

p4p I would say...

Duran
Hagler
Leonard
Hearns

In boxing there are always some fighters who give problems to some fighters, its how you adjust to them that shows your greatness. Leonard was getting schooled by Hearns because of his height, his quick long jab and his power and he didn't want to leave the fight for a rematch and in the end Koed hearns. I think that kind of defies the notion that he was overrated plus Hearns is no slouch, the only other fighter who did that to hearns was hagler.

[BigLuke]

SRL overrated Heck no..... ONe of the G O A T.

[Scrap]

The first Lenoard Hearns fight ,listening to people talk about it Makes me wonder If I was watching the same fight. Jesus this dates me Id been a coach for 14 years then. took 5 of my boxers to watch it. For 4 rounds Hearns pissed it, from then on Lenoard was the Guvnor making Hearns do what He wanted Him to do. Making Him work When He wanted to rest, He walked Him down in every facet of the game.He executed the perfect way to beat Hearns Yes he was just behind on points, but coming on strong.For anybody who hasnt seen the fight get it its an education on Boxing at its best. Who on the night were the best 2 Welterweights Ive ever seen, both at their peak. Im a big fan of both they were special

[The_One77]

SRL took over the middle rounds and once Hearns was hurt, basically he was just on his bike for the rest of the fight.

[SimonH]

Duran was overrated at lightweight imo

WHAT?

Explain to me how Duran was not top 2 in the Lightweight divsion, I can see no reason how Duran can be anything but; my list:

10 Sammy Angott
9 Julio Cesar Chavez
8 Bob Montgomery
7 Ike Williams
6 Battling Nelson
5 Joe Gans
4 Pernell Whitaker
3 Henry Armstrong
2 Benny Leonard
1 Roberto Duran

Mentions: Jack McAuliffe, George Lavigne, Frank Erne, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Lou Ambers, Beau Jack, Jimmy Carter, Carlos Ortiz, Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Guts Ishimatsu (Ishimatsu Suzuki), Alexis Arguello, Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Hector Camacho Snr, Oscar de la Hoya, Shane Mosley, Steve Johnson, Jose Luis Castillo and Floyd Mayweather Jr


As for Leonard, I loathe the bloke with a passion, but even I can accept he is one the 15 finest fighters ever; sadly.

[The_One77]

Duran fought only 2 world champions at lightweight out of 70 something fights...the rest were mediocre.
If that's not overrated i don't know what is

[SimonH]

Duran fought only 2 world champions at lightweight out of 70 something fights...the rest were mediocre.
If that's not overrated i don't know what is

Going into the Leonard rematch, Duran had met Buchanan, DeJesus, Suzuki (Guts Ishimatsu), Mamby, Palomino and Leonard, and had a 7-1 record against World title holders, including avenging the one defeat (against DeJesus) Twice!

[The_One77]

Duran fought only 2 world champions at lightweight out of 70 something fights...the rest were mediocre.
If that's not overrated i don't know what is

Going into the Leonard rematch, Duran had met Buchanan, DeJesus, Suzuki (Guts Ishimatsu), Mamby, Palomino and Leonard, and had a 7-1 record against World title holders, including avenging the one defeat (against DeJesus) Twice!

This is what i mean, Duran only fought a handful of guys who were actually world caliber (world champions)....and he lost against one of them. The Ken Buchacan fight was also contreversial aswell.
Imo, it's not exactly impressive to have 70 fights and fight only 4 world champions and lose to one of them.
Anyway he fought SRL at WW

[SimonH]

Duran fought only 2 world champions at lightweight out of 70 something fights...the rest were mediocre.
If that's not overrated i don't know what is

Going into the Leonard rematch, Duran had met Buchanan, DeJesus, Suzuki (Guts Ishimatsu), Mamby, Palomino and Leonard, and had a 7-1 record against World title holders, including avenging the one defeat (against DeJesus) Twice!

This is what i mean, Duran only fought a handful of guys who were actually world caliber (world champions)....and he lost against one of them. The Ken Buchacan fight was also contreversial aswell.
Imo, it's not exactly impressive to have 70 fights and fight only 4 world champions and lose to one of them.
Anyway he fought SRL at WW

He fought six, when there was a maximim of two world champs in each division. And because he dominated the Lightweights; himself, DeJesus and Suzuki (Guts Ishimatsu) were the only champs between 73 and 78, and Duran was 3-0 against them two fighters in that period. As well as beating 140lbs World title holder Mamby...

[Scrap]

Duran was something else,The length of his career says it all Much better Boxer than people give him credit for a predator in the finest mold, If anybody talks about fighting men, his is the first name that comes into my head

[fatsandy]

Even though SRL was before my time..I always thought of him as a GOAT then I seen a special on a Guy called the HAWK , I watched the HAWK call SRL out while they both were HOT commodities and SRL totally ignored him..as of that moment (in my mind) the GREAT SRL was a coward... I could see him as nothing more after that.... Can someone shed any light on this for me?

[SimonH]

Even though SRL was before my time..I always thought of him as a GOAT then I seen a special on a Guy called the HAWK , I watched the HAWK call SRL out while they both were HOT commodities and SRL totally ignored him..as of that moment (in my mind) the GREAT SRL was a coward... I could see him as nothing more after that.... Can someone shed any light on this for me?

I suspect 'The Hawk' you are talking about is Aaron Pryor. Pryor was a superb Lightweight, who had to move up to 140lbs to get his title shot. By the time he peaked, Leonard had retired (after the Finch fight), and by the time Leonard had comeback sadly Pryor was a hopeless crack addict, who was losing to journeyman Bobby Joe Young...

I am no Leonard fan, but Ray never avoided a Pryor fight IMO, timing meant, it just was never considered a serious fight on the table.