Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?

[Gandalf]

I don't see how being ignorant towards the feelings of those who hold religion dear is any more reasonable though.

Fair enough religion is not important to you but it is to them so why offend them by creating caricatures and drawings in the first place?

Respect should be mutual.

No, religion isn't important to me. But I will respect any person who follows their faith and more so if they are decent and don't try to push it onto me. I know two Christians, not too closely mind, and religion is simply not part of the conversation. It's not very relevant.

You are a man that understands humour, Bilbo. You have made plenty of tasteless jokes in the past and that is what a lot of humour is based upon. If you were so concerned about offending people then you would just be Mr PC 24/7. But you are not, so I find it a little strange that you would be so opposed to a silly cartoon making a satirical point about something. In this instance there might not even be any humour mocking the religion, but simply an image of this human that apparently spread the word of god.

It's a huge overreaction to be banning a peoples site such as You Tube and have loads of people protesting about it. It's like christians getting upset by Monty Python's Life of Brian all those years back and everybody now loves it! Maybe Muslims need something done to cover some of their background...though I fear it might end in WW3!

There is a difference about joking on a private forum and publicly offending though. I wouldnt write about my lust for Dakota Fanning in a newspaper for example or give my analysis of why the blacks allowed themselves to be enslaved.

I see no problem in hattonthehammer drawing pictures of Muhammad blowing goats in his own home but I would object to some Western twat creating Southpark style cartoons to lampoon them and then moan about what fundamentalists they are.

Muslims dont like having their faith mocked, and Westerners dont like their civilians being blown up. Just respect each other's points of view and everything would be fine.

Fair points, though I do think having a sense of humour about things is infintitely more preferable than killing somebody. I really do believe that anything should go when it comes to humour.

I'm still struggling to understand why this prophet Mohammad dude is so offensive in the physical form though. He was a mortal and not even a divine entity, what is so precious about him? I think a lot of religion is corny, but nothing more so than being unable to represent in visual form a significant player in that history.

[Gandalf]

What a surprise more muslim rubbish all they seem to do is cause trouble! EDL!

I don't think most Muslim's do cause the trouble though. I really think most of them sit quiet, thinking a lot like us, and would just wish that everyone else would just lighten up about the whole thing. It's probably less easy for them as they are living around a lot more active and scary individuals.

[Kev]

I don't see how being ignorant towards the feelings of those who hold religion dear is any more reasonable though.

Fair enough religion is not important to you but it is to them so why offend them by creating caricatures and drawings in the first place?

Respect should be mutual.

No, religion isn't important to me. But I will respect any person who follows their faith and more so if they are decent and don't try to push it onto me. I know two Christians, not too closely mind, and religion is simply not part of the conversation. It's not very relevant.

You are a man that understands humour, Bilbo. You have made plenty of tasteless jokes in the past and that is what a lot of humour is based upon. If you were so concerned about offending people then you would just be Mr PC 24/7. But you are not, so I find it a little strange that you would be so opposed to a silly cartoon making a satirical point about something. In this instance there might not even be any humour mocking the religion, but simply an image of this human that apparently spread the word of god.

It's a huge overreaction to be banning a peoples site such as You Tube and have loads of people protesting about it. It's like christians getting upset by Monty Python's Life of Brian all those years back and everybody now loves it! Maybe Muslims need something done to cover some of their background...though I fear it might end in WW3!

There is a difference about joking on a private forum and publicly offending though. I wouldnt write about my lust for Dakota Fanning in a newspaper for example or give my analysis of why the blacks allowed themselves to be enslaved.

I see no problem in hattonthehammer drawing pictures of Muhammad blowing goats in his own home but I would object to some Western twat creating Southpark style cartoons to lampoon them and then moan about what fundamentalists they are.

Muslims dont like having their faith mocked, and Westerners dont like their civilians being blown up. Just respect each other's points of view and everything would be fine.

Fair points, though I do think having a sense of humour about things is infintitely more preferable than killing somebody. I really do believe that anything should go when it comes to humour.

I'm still struggling to understand why this prophet Mohammad dude is so offensive in the physical form though. He was a mortal and not even a divine entity, what is so precious about him? I think a lot of religion is corny, but nothing more so than being unable to represent in visual form a significant player in that history.

Islam generally doesnt allow depictions of any prophets or God for fear of it leading to idolatry. In the old Testament God was pretty strict on it too.

Gnerally though in the West, it's not only the fact that Muhammad is being depicted, but also that he is being depicted in a farcical or insulting way.

They feel at least as strongly about their faith as we do about our ideals of freedom of speech, democracy and the right to wear flag bearing clothing, even though they probably think some of these ideas silly.

Tolerance is just about accepting people to be as they are and not imposing your own opinions on them. I think the West is every bit as fundamentalist and radical as Islam, invading countries, forcing democracy, trying to liberate homosexuals in Islam countries etc.

[Gandalf]

I don't see how being ignorant towards the feelings of those who hold religion dear is any more reasonable though.

Fair enough religion is not important to you but it is to them so why offend them by creating caricatures and drawings in the first place?

Respect should be mutual.

No, religion isn't important to me. But I will respect any person who follows their faith and more so if they are decent and don't try to push it onto me. I know two Christians, not too closely mind, and religion is simply not part of the conversation. It's not very relevant.

You are a man that understands humour, Bilbo. You have made plenty of tasteless jokes in the past and that is what a lot of humour is based upon. If you were so concerned about offending people then you would just be Mr PC 24/7. But you are not, so I find it a little strange that you would be so opposed to a silly cartoon making a satirical point about something. In this instance there might not even be any humour mocking the religion, but simply an image of this human that apparently spread the word of god.

It's a huge overreaction to be banning a peoples site such as You Tube and have loads of people protesting about it. It's like christians getting upset by Monty Python's Life of Brian all those years back and everybody now loves it! Maybe Muslims need something done to cover some of their background...though I fear it might end in WW3!

There is a difference about joking on a private forum and publicly offending though. I wouldnt write about my lust for Dakota Fanning in a newspaper for example or give my analysis of why the blacks allowed themselves to be enslaved.

I see no problem in hattonthehammer drawing pictures of Muhammad blowing goats in his own home but I would object to some Western twat creating Southpark style cartoons to lampoon them and then moan about what fundamentalists they are.

Muslims dont like having their faith mocked, and Westerners dont like their civilians being blown up. Just respect each other's points of view and everything would be fine.

Fair points, though I do think having a sense of humour about things is infintitely more preferable than killing somebody. I really do believe that anything should go when it comes to humour.

I'm still struggling to understand why this prophet Mohammad dude is so offensive in the physical form though. He was a mortal and not even a divine entity, what is so precious about him? I think a lot of religion is corny, but nothing more so than being unable to represent in visual form a significant player in that history.

Islam generally doesnt allow depictions of any prophets or God for fear of it leading to idolatry. In the old Testament God was pretty strict on it too.

Gnerally though in the West, it's not only the fact that Muhammad is being depicted, but also that he is being depicted in a farcical or insulting way.

They feel at least as strongly about their faith as we do about our ideals of freedom of speech, democracy and the right to wear flag bearing clothing, even though they probably think some of these ideas silly.

Tolerance is just about accepting people to be as they are and not imposing your own opinions on them. I think the West is every bit as fundamentalist and radical as Islam, invading countries, forcing democracy, trying to liberate homosexuals in Islam countries etc.

How can being free to think your own thought free of doctrine ever be thought silly? I find the idea of being told that life is a certain way and that way only a silly doctrine.

If something cannot be proven to have even existed, then what is the harm in mocking it. In the case of the awful mohammad, and having just read about him, the guy would most likley be all over The Sun with his concubines and multiple wives. It's no wonder the Muslim faith is a mans religion.

Having done a little reading on the guy, he deserves mocking and far more so than I thought before. He was a rotter and a cheat and yet because he was male and kept women down and decided "I will speak the word of god"...all these Muslims get upset because he might be depicted in a negative light?

Laughable.

[Kev]

I don't see how being ignorant towards the feelings of those who hold religion dear is any more reasonable though.

Fair enough religion is not important to you but it is to them so why offend them by creating caricatures and drawings in the first place?

Respect should be mutual.

No, religion isn't important to me. But I will respect any person who follows their faith and more so if they are decent and don't try to push it onto me. I know two Christians, not too closely mind, and religion is simply not part of the conversation. It's not very relevant.

You are a man that understands humour, Bilbo. You have made plenty of tasteless jokes in the past and that is what a lot of humour is based upon. If you were so concerned about offending people then you would just be Mr PC 24/7. But you are not, so I find it a little strange that you would be so opposed to a silly cartoon making a satirical point about something. In this instance there might not even be any humour mocking the religion, but simply an image of this human that apparently spread the word of god.

It's a huge overreaction to be banning a peoples site such as You Tube and have loads of people protesting about it. It's like christians getting upset by Monty Python's Life of Brian all those years back and everybody now loves it! Maybe Muslims need something done to cover some of their background...though I fear it might end in WW3!

There is a difference about joking on a private forum and publicly offending though. I wouldnt write about my lust for Dakota Fanning in a newspaper for example or give my analysis of why the blacks allowed themselves to be enslaved.

I see no problem in hattonthehammer drawing pictures of Muhammad blowing goats in his own home but I would object to some Western twat creating Southpark style cartoons to lampoon them and then moan about what fundamentalists they are.

Muslims dont like having their faith mocked, and Westerners dont like their civilians being blown up. Just respect each other's points of view and everything would be fine.

Fair points, though I do think having a sense of humour about things is infintitely more preferable than killing somebody. I really do believe that anything should go when it comes to humour.

I'm still struggling to understand why this prophet Mohammad dude is so offensive in the physical form though. He was a mortal and not even a divine entity, what is so precious about him? I think a lot of religion is corny, but nothing more so than being unable to represent in visual form a significant player in that history.

Islam generally doesnt allow depictions of any prophets or God for fear of it leading to idolatry. In the old Testament God was pretty strict on it too.

Gnerally though in the West, it's not only the fact that Muhammad is being depicted, but also that he is being depicted in a farcical or insulting way.

They feel at least as strongly about their faith as we do about our ideals of freedom of speech, democracy and the right to wear flag bearing clothing, even though they probably think some of these ideas silly.

Tolerance is just about accepting people to be as they are and not imposing your own opinions on them. I think the West is every bit as fundamentalist and radical as Islam, invading countries, forcing democracy, trying to liberate homosexuals in Islam countries etc.

How can being free to think your own thought free of doctrine ever be thought silly? I find the idea of being told that life is a certain way and that way only a silly doctrine.

If something cannot be proven to have even existed, then what is the harm in mocking it. In the case of the awful mohammad, and having just read about him, the guy would most likley be all over The Sun with his concubines and multiple wives. It's no wonder the Muslim faith is a mans religion.

Having done a little reading on the guy, he deserves mocking and far more so than I thought before. He was a rotter and a cheat and yet because he was male and kept women down and decided "I will speak the word of god"...all these Muslims get upset because he might be depicted in a negative light?

Laughable.

Yes but that's the western view not theirs. I have no problem respecting their beliefs even though I don't agree with them.

[Nameless]

No they shouldnt

Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins

PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch

loving the new sig mr hatton

Thank you, Thank you, I did design it with tons of love

[CFH]

Once again, Bilbo is the voice of reason on the forum. God help us all.

[HattonTheHammer]

No they shouldnt

Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins

PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch

loving the new sig mr hatton

Thank you, Thank you, I did design it with tons of love

i actually enjoy nameless`s homo-erotic sigs/avs

Shows people how liberal i actually am to things like being a gay and that theres nothing wrong with it (just as long as they stay away from me, my family, all positions of responsibility and power and start wearing condoms)

[Andre]

No they shouldnt

Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins

PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch

It's 72.

once you`ve trawled your way through 70 odd your really not gonna be in any position to take care of the last 2

Id be fucked after about 6, by 10 id be in physical pain and by 15 id probably of re-died in which case id have to start right from number 1 again

It's a never ending cycle. A few of them will be fatties as well.

no doubt

id love to know how mohammed devised 72, wonder if someone suggested 68 and mohammed was all like "are you a retard or something, the perfect number of virgins is 72 innit"

Ahahah you guys are great hahaha .

I think it was some fool mullah not Mohammad.

They of course will be dried out old Catholic nuns .

[Gandalf]

No they shouldnt

Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins

PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch

loving the new sig mr hatton

Thank you, Thank you, I did design it with tons of love

i actually enjoy nameless`s homo-erotic sigs/avs

Shows people how liberal i actually am to things like being a gay and that theres nothing wrong with it (just as long as they stay away from me, my family, all positions of responsibility and power and start wearing condoms)

LOL, if more people were like HTH the world would be a better place. He is extremely offensive and people are very rude to him in return and yet we all learn to coexist peacefully. Some of these Muslims should look at HTH and learn.

[ono]

What a surprise more muslim rubbish all they seem to do is cause trouble! EDL!

[ono]

I don't see how being ignorant towards the feelings of those who hold religion dear is any more reasonable though.

Fair enough religion is not important to you but it is to them so why offend them by creating caricatures and drawings in the first place?

Respect should be mutual.

No, religion isn't important to me. But I will respect any person who follows their faith and more so if they are decent and don't try to push it onto me. I know two Christians, not too closely mind, and religion is simply not part of the conversation. It's not very relevant.

You are a man that understands humour, Bilbo. You have made plenty of tasteless jokes in the past and that is what a lot of humour is based upon. If you were so concerned about offending people then you would just be Mr PC 24/7. But you are not, so I find it a little strange that you would be so opposed to a silly cartoon making a satirical point about something. In this instance there might not even be any humour mocking the religion, but simply an image of this human that apparently spread the word of god.

It's a huge overreaction to be banning a peoples site such as You Tube and have loads of people protesting about it. It's like christians getting upset by Monty Python's Life of Brian all those years back and everybody now loves it! Maybe Muslims need something done to cover some of their background...though I fear it might end in WW3!

There is a difference about joking on a private forum and publicly offending though. I wouldnt write about my lust for Dakota Fanning in a newspaper for example or give my analysis of why the blacks allowed themselves to be enslaved.

I see no problem in hattonthehammer drawing pictures of Muhammad blowing goats in his own home but I would object to some Western twat creating Southpark style cartoons to lampoon them and then moan about what fundamentalists they are.

Muslims dont like having their faith mocked, and Westerners dont like their civilians being blown up. Just respect each other's points of view and everything would be fine.

Fair points, though I do think having a sense of humour about things is infintitely more preferable than killing somebody. I really do believe that anything should go when it comes to humour.

I'm still struggling to understand why this prophet Mohammad dude is so offensive in the physical form though. He was a mortal and not even a divine entity, what is so precious about him? I think a lot of religion is corny, but nothing more so than being unable to represent in visual form a significant player in that history.

Islam generally doesnt allow depictions of any prophets or God for fear of it leading to idolatry. In the old Testament God was pretty strict on it too.

Gnerally though in the West, it's not only the fact that Muhammad is being depicted, but also that he is being depicted in a farcical or insulting way.

They feel at least as strongly about their faith as we do about our ideals of freedom of speech, democracy and the right to wear flag bearing clothing, even though they probably think some of these ideas silly.

Tolerance is just about accepting people to be as they are and not imposing your own opinions on them. I think the West is every bit as fundamentalist and radical as Islam, invading countries, forcing democracy, trying to liberate homosexuals in Islam countries etc.

Bingo.

[Master]

What a surprise more muslim rubbish all they seem to do is cause trouble! EDL!

EDL never cause trouble only the small monority.

[JazMerkin]

BBC News - US cartoonist apologises over Facebook Muhammad row

I know this is another thread in the same vein as the flag t-shirts one and the one where the Muslims got angry about some guy who was trying to make a point about free speech, but I thought I would start another one and include a poll.

First off as in intelligent rational human being, I cannot bring myself to follow any kind of organised religion. I think religion has always existed as a means for those who desire power to try and maintain control and influence over the general population. It's interesting that they have continued to wield such influence despite our ability to understand the world around us ever more clearly. In a few hundred years we have gone from thinking the earth was flat and that we were the centre of the universe to realising that we are a miniscule globe in an ever expanding universe. Science has given us so much knowledge, and yet we cling to these peculiar faiths where logic and reason are largely absent. 'Take the leap of faith with me and you will get to heaven'...yeah right. What does this have to do with the prophet Mohammad? Well not too much in a direct sense, but I'm just trying to get across my general perception that organised religion is quite absurd. I don't believe in god and I certainly don't care about fanciful notions of going to heaven. Not that I care too much if others choose to follow a particular faith, that is their choice, but it does bother me when satire and cartoons can be used as the springboard to threaten death upon others.

Now this brings me onto this ongoing controversy about the problems with the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad. It's something that I find difficult to get my head around. Even if I was a Muslim, with my liberal sensibilities, I would find it very hard to get upset by an image of a human being. After all wasn't Mohammad just a messenger who was spreading the word of god? The christians seem much more chilled about this kind of thing. We see images of Jesus everywhere. Admittedly, they are probably not a good likeness with the blue eyes and snow white skin, but people are on the whole quite comfortable with the image. It isn't upsetting anyone nor are christians hacking people down with axes. The Muslims seem so much more more sensitive about things and are seemingly so much more inclined towards violence. There are protests and calls to murder if you draw a cartoon or try and put a face towards this mysterious figure.

Is it only me that finds this completely nuts? I am obviously not a religious man, but I find it downright strange how savage and simple some people can be when you dare to mock their religion or pass comment in a way that they deem unnaceptable. Religion is absurd, but so too is life and I really think that satire and comedy are some of the best ways of coming to terms with things. To get angry and want to hurt others over it is really weak IMO and makes me think very negatively about the intolerance of such a faith.

Thought

I'm an atheist also Miles, but as soon as you start trying to assert superiority because of your own belief system, you're as bad as all those up their own arse religious people who feel so morally superior. It would be much better to actually acknowledge that we have no fucking clue what is really going on with the world (guess what, people 200 years ago had science as well), so might as well just sit back, enjoy the ride. That goes for religious people and atheist who all think they exclusively have 'the answer'.

As it is, religious faith is no indication of a rational and logical mindset. I know many religious people who are far more informed and rational than myself. In fact, they certainly are more rational than almost any of us on here who are determined to see men beaten the shit out of because we dislike what we have seen of them in tv shows, rumoured quotes we believe them to have said or how they're ranked in boxing magazines. Boxing fans are the last people who should claim to have the book on being logical and rational.

[Cressa121]

No they shouldnt

Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins

PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch

It's 72.

once you`ve trawled your way through 70 odd your really not gonna be in any position to take care of the last 2

Id be fucked after about 6, by 10 id be in physical pain and by 15 id probably of re-died in which case id have to start right from number 1 again

It's a never ending cycle. A few of them will be fatties as well.

Every time I hear about the 72 virgins I think of this