Maywether Vs Leonard,Heans,Duran at welter weight?

[Violent Demise]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat Hearns

Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.

Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

[rjj tszyu]

I actually think he would beat all 3. Not 100% on that but his defensive ability and counter punching brilliance would cause hell for both Duran and Hearns. Leonard would be the toughest one to call but I think Mayweather would cause him serious trouble with his elusiveness and then his own great speed. I know Leonard would probably have the edge in speed overall at WW but his timing wasn't as good as Mayweathers. This for me would be the hardest fight to call in the history of the WW division (at world level that is) but i'm going Mayweather.

[JazMerkin]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat Hearns

Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.

Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

[Majesty]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat Hearns

Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.

Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

Alright, but with that you could also argue that Mayweather's chin was arguably better as he was a natural 130 pounder whose chin has held as high as 154. Yet Hearns was a natural 147 pounder who got stopped at that weight class and also got stopped when he moved up?

[JazMerkin]

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

Alright, but with that you could also argue that Mayweather's chin was arguably better as he was a natural 130 pounder whose chin has held as high as 154. Yet Hearns was a natural 147 pounder who got stopped at that weight class and also got stopped when he moved up?

Maybe in a p4p sense yeah, but not at 147. Hearns was only hurt at 147 by Leonard and that was to do with his legs not being built to last him through long, tough fights. His actual chin was pretty good at that weight. Above the weight, only Middleweights (hard-punching ones at that) and a Cruiserweight have stopped him. That hardly shows a weak chin at Welter. Seriously, I actually rate Floyd as a better fighter than Tommy overall, but at 147 there really isn't much doubt who was better, Hearns is just all wrong for him.

[Taeth]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat Hearns

Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.

Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

How is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.

Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.

I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.

Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.

Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.

I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.

[Violent Demise]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat Hearns

Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.

Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

How is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.

Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.

I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.

Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.

Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.

I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.

1, That means nothing. It's not an excuse. There is no if Benitez would of trained longer he would of been sharper. If the man couldn't give himself proper training for Leonard and Hearns than chances are he wasn't capable of committing himself. It's just the way he was

2, That's just moronic to say Hearns was one-dimensional and couldn't fight on the inside. Look at the Hagler fight. Hagler has him pinned on the ropes and is working him over. Watch Hearns pick his spots and land his right hand flush on Hagler's chin. The uppercut got in as well. Yeah he took punishment. But he handed his share out as well. Not like it means anything. Cuz there is no way Mayweather would brawl with him. No way

3, You do realize most of the fights in the 80's were 15 rounds, right? 15 rounds is more than 12 rounds. So of course they wouldn't look as fresh late in fights as today's fighters

[Taeth]

[QUOTE=Violent Demise;883537]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

How is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.

Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.

I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.

Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.

Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.

I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.

1, That means nothing. It's not an excuse. There is no if Benitez would of trained longer he would of been sharper. If the man couldn't give himself proper training for Leonard and Hearns than chances are he wasn't capable of committing himself. It's just the way he was

2, That's just moronic to say Hearns was one-dimensional and couldn't fight on the inside. Look at the Hagler fight. Hagler has him pinned on the ropes and is working him over. Watch Hearns pick his spots and land his right hand flush on Hagler's chin. The uppercut got in as well. Yeah he took punishment. But he handed his share out as well. Not like it means anything. Cuz there is no way Mayweather would brawl with him. No way

3, You do realize most of the fights in the 80's were 15 rounds, right? 15 rounds is more than 12 rounds. So of course they wouldn't look as fresh late in fights as today's fighters

1. It shows that a guy like Mayweather who both trains hard and is more gifted than Benitez could accomplish that much more.
2. Hearns isn't a good inside fighter, sure he is effective offensively, but besides head movement he has virtually no defense when he throws punches because he is so pumped up that he doesn't leave a hand back to defend and Floyd would block his shots inside and counter back accurately.
3. I don't need to see what were previously called the championship rounds to see evidence of fatigue with these guys, Hearns never had great stamina especially at WW. Leonard would still be able to throw punches and wasn't gassed in a fight, but his mental sharpness would wane after 6 rounds, and he would get proggresively sloppier both offensively and defensively after that, but his power, speed, and determination usually carried him through.

[Master]

Leonard was too good for Mayweather, he was a legitamate Welter, who had speed, power and boxing skills. His will to win was second to none, he would have found a way to beat Floyd.

[Majesty]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat Hearns

Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.

Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

How is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.

Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.

I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.

Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.

Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.

I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.

1, That means nothing. It's not an excuse. There is no if Benitez would of trained longer he would of been sharper. If the man couldn't give himself proper training for Leonard and Hearns than chances are he wasn't capable of committing himself. It's just the way he was

2, That's just moronic to say Hearns was one-dimensional and couldn't fight on the inside. Look at the Hagler fight. Hagler has him pinned on the ropes and is working him over. Watch Hearns pick his spots and land his right hand flush on Hagler's chin. The uppercut got in as well. Yeah he took punishment. But he handed his share out as well. Not like it means anything. Cuz there is no way Mayweather would brawl with him. No way

3, You do realize most of the fights in the 80's were 15 rounds, right? 15 rounds is more than 12 rounds. So of course they wouldn't look as fresh late in fights as today's fighters

I thought we were ignoring fights above 147? Had he showed an ability to fight on the inside at 147 like against Hagler? Because if his inside fighting on Hagler who was squaring up can be brought in, then his struggles against Benitez should be too

[paddy448]

floyd over them all...

first off jjm, i enjoy reading ur posts, for me ur easily one of the best posters on here, always class mate, but really mayweather over them all, dont get me wrong i love mayweather, and after the mosley performance i respected him so much more, hes one of the greatest in history, a true credit to the game. just curious as to ur post saying mayweather beats them all at welter, i strongly disagree, i think out of all 3 tommy h would of been the most hardest fights due to hitmans physical advantages, also sugar ray i just cant see mayweather beating him up at welter, and as for duran hes my favourite ever so i have to say duran out fights mayweather to a ud. i no anything is possible, and mayweather could beat these fighters, but going off what i no and what i have seen and believe, l think mayweather loses all 3. i strongly reiterate tho, that anything is possible

after thinking about it a little longer ive had a slight change of heart, stylistically,hearns is the hardest fight for mayweather but i can see mayweather prevailing with his superb defence and counterpunching, for these same reasons i see mayweather beating leonard and also (it pains me to say this cause hes my favourite fighter ever) duran(not at lightweight tho). i really am starting to see mayweather for what he is, one of the greatest fighters ever, i put him in that all time elite group, and the great thing is theres more to come

[Violent Demise]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat Hearns

Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.

Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

How is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.

Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.

I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.

Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.

Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.

I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.

1, That means nothing. It's not an excuse. There is no if Benitez would of trained longer he would of been sharper. If the man couldn't give himself proper training for Leonard and Hearns than chances are he wasn't capable of committing himself. It's just the way he was

2, That's just moronic to say Hearns was one-dimensional and couldn't fight on the inside. Look at the Hagler fight. Hagler has him pinned on the ropes and is working him over. Watch Hearns pick his spots and land his right hand flush on Hagler's chin. The uppercut got in as well. Yeah he took punishment. But he handed his share out as well. Not like it means anything. Cuz there is no way Mayweather would brawl with him. No way

3, You do realize most of the fights in the 80's were 15 rounds, right? 15 rounds is more than 12 rounds. So of course they wouldn't look as fresh late in fights as today's fighters

I thought we were ignoring fights above 147? Had he showed an ability to fight on the inside at 147 like against Hagler? Because if his inside fighting on Hagler who was squaring up can be brought in, then his struggles against Benitez should be too

Can you name me a fighter who fought him on the inside at 147?

[Taeth]

Leonard. and Hearns' looked terrible, he would throw punches with his hands down and Leonard would catch him time and again with punches, watch around 6-7 and near the end, Hearns' looked dreadful on the inside, but Leonard wasn't educated in getting in on guys because he always either just blinded them with speed and combinations or outboxed them on the outside, we've seen Floyd fight on the inside plenty of times, and I think the fight with Castillo really forced him to perfect that art.

[amat]

haha Oh God I hate these threads. VD is fighting the good fight here, the fact is nobody knows so no one should act like they are definitely right. Beanflicker made a really good post. I agree with most of it, but I'm not really sure Mayweather would be able to smother Duran's work on the inside. It would be an intriguing fight.

Hearns imo would beat Floyd in a 12 round fight. Just my opinion I'm not going to repeat what others have said I'll just say something about Hearns that hasn't been mentioned. He was completely comfortable drawing someone or getting drawn into a firefight. Even if he did have a bit of wildness in him, the fact that he was so big and had so much behind his punches it worked to his favor. Floyd would have big problems getting Hearns to slow down and it would be doubly harder for him to win rounds from Hearns without taking a lot more risks.

[Majesty]

thing is all these times Mayweather has been caught with are shots coming up at him usually. Whenever he faces someone that fights tall he dominates them and usually stops them. Hearns didn't have the best chin in the world and Mayweathers chin is very good and his defense is great too. Hearns was a sucker for a lead right hand and thats one of Mayweather's best punches.

The 2 tall fighters he dominated that stand out were Diego Corrales and Phillip N'dou. N'dou was a good fighter. Diego was very good. Hearns was a great fighter. And he had an excellent jab. Hearns chin was weak. But it would stand up to Mayweathers power. I see noway Floyd could beat Hearns

Duran beats him (he beats everybody) at Lightweight. But not at Welterweight. Mayweather would take a competitive, but clear cut win.

Leonard I think would pose the least problems for Floyd. Mainly cuz of Mayweathers outstanding defense. Leonard had all kinds of problems against Wilfredo Bentiez defense. He was luckly Bentiez couldn't make him pay every time he made him miss. Mayweather would

Pretty much agree with this

You bring up Benitiez and the issues that Leonard had with him, but what about Hearns? he had issues with him as well, or are we ignoring that fight because it was at 154? At 147 Hearns really never fought someone with a key big defensive style like Floyds so I'm using Benitez for reference even though it was at 154. So I'm not seeing no way that Floyd can beat hearns? As was the case with Leonard. Mayweather could make both Hearns and Leonard pay in ways that Benitez didn't. And it isn't a stretch to say that Floyd may have had a better chin at 147 then Hearns did, strictly because Floyd has yet to be stopped or dropped at that weight class. At the same time he hasn't fought anyone close to Hearn's speed or power. But the only person at 147 that Hearns fought with a style close to Floyd in terms of speed and power would have been Leonard, and I think Mayweather was a much better defensive fighter then Leonard. Leonard didn't beat Hearns with the shoeshine combinations he is known for he did it from firing from the outside between the openings when Hearns created them. Floyd is much better at that then Leonard and can get out of the way from a response better then Leonard could do too. So I don't think that Hearns beating Floyd is a foregone conclusion by any stretch.

Pretty much yeah.

And Judah knocked him down. And you know it was legit

Judah didn't really knock him 'down' because of his power imo, I think there was a lack of balance, but aside from that VD is on point.

Yes, Hearns didn't have it easy with Benitez, which is why I think it makes it to the final bell, but Hearns was an exquisite boxer, his chin is far more solid at 147 than Floyd's imo, only Leonard had him hurt at the weight, you have to bear in mind that Floyd is a 130lber who grew into a Welter, Tommy was a 147lber who grew into a Super-Middleweight. He may have been hurt further up, but the Leonard loss was more to do with his stamina imo.

I think he'd clean up enough of the earlier rounds to take a solid decison over Mayweather. Also all the people going on about Leonard should remember that he very rarely took fights over against elite opposition till later in the fight. In both fights with Hearns, the 1st with Duran & Benitez, he left it relatively late before starting to win rounds. The only fights he began well were Hagler & Duran II, and in both of those he boxed in a way he wouldn't have against a quicker, more defensive opponent like Mayweather. In a 12 round fight, stylewise, it works very well in Floyd's favour.

How is this evidence that Hearns has a better chin, who else did he fight that even hit him cleanly at WW? Also MOsley is a harder puncher than Leonard, and put everything into the first punch that hurt Mayweather, and then he hit Floyd consecutively on the jaw then in the temple which was the shot that I feel hurt Floyd the worst, and anyone can be hurt by a punch like that.

Leonard and Hearns were great on the outside, but they didn't have the stamina Mayweather does. They would get sloppy as fights went on, people also forget that Benitez praticed like two weeks for Leonard and 11 days for the Hearns fight, which would mean he wasn't as sharp or in the type of shape needed to beat those guys, and he still gave them all kinds of difficulties.

I am not saying Floyd beats them pursay, but he is as fast as Leonard, harder to hit, and a far more complete fighter on the inside, Leonard has two inches in height on Floyd, but despite having 74inch reach I have no seen a welterweight with longer arms than Floyd, even Paul Williams who has an 81 or 82 inch reach has 26 inch arms which are the same as Floyd's which means he could likely have longer arms than Leonard which negatives some of the height. The problem is that Ray left his left hand by his waist which had its advantages, but also leaves it out of position, we saw Floyd consistently catch Mosley with both his jab and right cross because he didn't keep that hand up, and we've never seen Ray consistently keep that hand up because never fought somebody as fast as him. Floyd is not only as fast, but would maintain a higher level of sharpness because of his better work ethic which makes this a terrific matchup.

Hearns would be very difficult for Floyd on the outside because he was so good as setting you for that right cross, and he had that snappy jab to maintain space, but the jab that caught Mayweather was MOsley lunging in overbalanced ala Roy Jones or FLoyd Mayweather, and Hearns didn't throw his cross like that which is easier to read for the opponent, I honestly could see Floyd working around the jab and getting on the inside, where Hearns would throw wildly because he wasn't a calm fighter on the inside, and Floyd would pick off those punches and tire Hearns' out, and as the fight progressed I think he would stay inside, which is outside of Hearns' power and would pick him apart. Hearns is the one guy I feel confident Floyd would beat more often than not, and thats because he was the most one dimensional, he could either brawl or box on the outside, but he didn't have finesse when he brawled.

Duran I think is the most interesting matchup, I believe Floyd could stay on his bicycle and outbox Duran if he really wanted to, but i don't think he would. I feel that Floyd would fight similarly to how he has as a ww, use movement when necessary, but for the most part use his speed advantage and stand his ground, and I saw him nullify a great inside fighter in Hatton who changes angles and is great and getting off punches from all angles on the inside. That being said Duran was more methodical on the inside, like Mayweather is, he instinctively knows the rhythm on his opponent like Floyd does, and he had the natural gift of knowing how to move both his body and his feet on the inside to set up oppertunities, I think they have a great war on the inside, and either Mayweather's sharpness and defense would win the day, or Duran's tenacity and power would come through, its hard to say because there are so many variables, and everytime they broke I think Floyd would tee off on DUran would hit him sometimes and sometimes he would miss and they would get tied up, but for the most part I see them really bringing the very best out of eachother because they both are so knowledgable on the inside and they both know all the tricks.

I think Floyd has proven he is in their league, he had the power to stun both Mosley and OScar, he has as good of speed as anyone that's fought at WW, he has the best defensive of all of them, and the best accuracy. One big advantage that he and Pacquiao share is that they are in better shape than the fighters of old, maybe because of the benefits of modern science, or maybe not. I can't say, but I do see them as being a lot sharper late in fights than when I watch the fights in the 80's.

1, That means nothing. It's not an excuse. There is no if Benitez would of trained longer he would of been sharper. If the man couldn't give himself proper training for Leonard and Hearns than chances are he wasn't capable of committing himself. It's just the way he was

2, That's just moronic to say Hearns was one-dimensional and couldn't fight on the inside. Look at the Hagler fight. Hagler has him pinned on the ropes and is working him over. Watch Hearns pick his spots and land his right hand flush on Hagler's chin. The uppercut got in as well. Yeah he took punishment. But he handed his share out as well. Not like it means anything. Cuz there is no way Mayweather would brawl with him. No way

3, You do realize most of the fights in the 80's were 15 rounds, right? 15 rounds is more than 12 rounds. So of course they wouldn't look as fresh late in fights as today's fighters

I thought we were ignoring fights above 147? Had he showed an ability to fight on the inside at 147 like against Hagler? Because if his inside fighting on Hagler who was squaring up can be brought in, then his struggles against Benitez should be too

Can you name me a fighter who fought him on the inside at 147?

No, because the one person that got to the inside on him stopped him.