Very cool video regarding Israel's defensible borders and territory negotiations.

[Gandalf]

Since the 2nd world war the US has overthrown or isolated practically dozens of regimes for the crime of not allowing US business interests a central role in the system. Many of these regimes have advocated democracy or a socialist model and instead the US has chosen to support either a military coup or support totalitarian alternatives just so long as the elite allow US investors to make their share of the wealth. The US have acted above all other nations in terms of invasion or else trying to restrict the independance of nations through subversive means. Having just read Understanding Power by Chomsky, it is astonishing how long the list of countries actually is. Give it a read, it is quite shocking. Little old Britain falls way behind in the list of shame, as does Israel too for that matter. Though Israel was used quite often by the American's as a go between for illicit arms dealing in the 3rd world in countries where America wanted to keep it's name out. Apparently this was one of the reasons America continued to fund Israel so heavily. Israel has done a lot of America's dirty work over the years, so is looked upon very favourably.

For sure I admit that the Arabs have attacked Israel in the past. Does that make it right? Absolutely not, but you have to understand that in the eyes of many the sudden appearance of a state in the middle of Palestine after how many hundreds of years, was not a natural state of affairs. It was a horribly planned mess. Look at how big America is today. Why not just give the Jews half of Texas instead or put them in Wyoming? Plenty of space and a system that supports their existence. It was bound to lead to trouble saying "right!. The Jews can have all of this land here in Arab territory and all shall be dandy!". It was always going to end in disaster.

It's all well and good going back to less civilised times and talking about isolated incidents of anti-Jewish aggression. I'm not going to defend that. It's not about being on any one side. Wrong doing is wrong doing no matter who does the wrong doing. Yes, the Arab nations have done kamikaze things, yes, the Israeli's have been nutters in return. But in the past 40 years the Israeli's have been pumped up militarily, been given the bomb and even with all the advantages they have in the region are clearly the bullies in the region. It's like the elite has become the head boy armed with a stick and actually quite likes it. I made a simple list of RECENT bully boy activities commited by the Israeli's in RECENT years and you keep going back to 80 years ago. It isn't 80 years ago, Bilbo. Times have changed, when was the last time that Arabs were a serious threat to Israel? Certainly not now. There is no good reason to be keeping the Gazan people down and referring back to a massacre commited before the state was created is no justification for the blatant oppression going on today. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Israeli elite should know better, but obviously couldn't give a damn.

I talk about apartheid and it is absolutely true. In fact your denial of this is somewhat astonishing. It's a little bit like the Israeli claim that in Gaza "there is no humanitarian problem". Quite laughable. Why would anyone follow that corny line?

Ratner on Israeli apartheid Pt.1

Ratner on Israeli apartheid Pt.2

As for the two state solution. Again you are heading way back into times long gone. Let's talk of the here and now and please don't mention any corny proposals where the Palestinians must cede all land built on illegally by Israel and further accept broader changes in the borders in Israel's favour. There has been no serious talk of a two state solution in many a year. Any solution must fall back on the maps and conditions going back to 1967. This is the only fair way to solve things. And Israel must cede all rights to Palestinian water supplies (unless they want to pay good money for them that is. And even that should be determined by the Palestinians.)

[Gandalf]

An article showing the Israeli policy of apartheid. There's even a nice list of sources for you to check to if you are interested.

Our South Africa Moment Has Arrived

[Gandalf]

And stop saying I hate them, you are twisting it. I have already made the point that I despise the right wing elite who maintain control and dominate and nothing more. By using such blanket terms you are trying to make it as though I hate everyone in Israel and that is blatantly false.