Extending Arms - Shadow Boxing

[WayneFlint]

Oh yeh and to pick a right hand out of a video like that means nothing, i havent wasted my time watching it but i can assure you hes not simply using that step as an angle and that some conciderable amount of setting up has probably gone into walking his opponent into that punch/angle, a good boxer is thinking a few moves deep, its just not as simple as your implying, i wish it was... lol

[cambay411]

So Wayne are you for the step or totally against the step? lol

[cambay411]

Also i agree nothing is impossibe to counter thats why if you use that angle you have to keep your hands up and make sure to maintain good balance. No matter what you throw something is going to open up.

[HerbM]

So Wayne are you for the step or totally against the step? lol

There is a major difference between "taking a step" and "transferring weight to your front foot" -- you can do either separately or both together.

I am pretty sure that several of us, me for sure, are cautioning against the weight transfer forward. (Some may also be against any step,with or without weight.)

Even in the Dempsey 'falling step' he is NOT suggesting that you throw your weight onto the front foot. I actually find that more of my weight ends up on the BACK FOOT when doing this:

My front foot steps, or comes off the ground a little, or merely bends at the knee to REMOVE weight from it as (or just before really) the FIST STRIKES -- some of that front foot weight goes to the FIST (i.e., your opponents head or body) and the rest MUST go to your back foot --- unless you jump it must go somewhere.

The idea is to get a good part of it into the fist and thus into the opponent -- for a moment you are partly supported by HAND (and opponent's head) and REAR FOOT.

I believe -- and practice this way, you do not want ALL of the original weight from the front foot on the HAND since then you are in danger of truly falling through if you miss the target or he slips.

Generally, if I start with 60-40 rear-to-front weight distribution, I am trying for (about) 80-20 read to hand distribution for about 1/2 second, then that front foot is firmly back on the floor taking the weight again.

So, if my weight is (about) 200 lbs and I put 20% (or even 10) of it into that punch along with the force already in that punch the opponent's head is going to feel the effects of 20-40 lbs* MORE than the punch alone. Not bad if we can do it.

Dempsey even spends a lot of effort and words explaining that when you FIRST start practicing the falling step and "Left JOLT" on the bag people will come up to you and tell you that is all wrong because they will see you FALLING FORWARD, or otherwise shifting your weight onto that front foot -- even if you don't do that at first many people will assume that is what you are doing and most good boxers know this (shifting weight forward) is wrong according to canonical boxing theory.

After you perfect the "falling step" (according to Dempsey and my limited experience with it) you can do it so that no one even sees the weight come OFF the front foot and so that you can take either a big step or no step depending on where you (next) want to be.

* For the physicists among us: Technically, just having 30 lbs on your hand is meaningless and without effect UNLESS it stays there for some (however brief period of) time.

You need the time for GRAVITY to work to ACCELERATE that hand into the opponent for him to suffer the effects of the transfer. But that time can be really short, just the time you are ALMOST in contact with the opponent until just as you withdraw.

This is likely about 1/2 second max but I am guessing and have not tried to measure it beyond noticing it while hitting the bag.

We could do the math (or someone could do the math anyway ) and figure out how much kinetic energy is produced by 30 lbs accelerated by the Earth for 1/2 second. Then we would likely want to do more math and convert that to IMPULSE to get an idea of the extra impact delivered.

But hey, if his head snaps back like a rag doll from a "jab" that's close enough for me.

--
HerbM

[jameso'hara]

Out of all the information offered within this topic I would like to pick out Fran's assertion that the right cross is not the ace in the pack most fighters think it to be.

Hooks are very often much more effective. This is very true.

[WayneFlint]

So Wayne are you for the step or totally against the step? lol

I would say it depends what situation you apply the step too and how the step is taken. but generally if your trying to take a step while simultaneousely throwing the right hand then you are going to end up leaving the back foot out of range sometimes by not completing the step with your bac foot before throwing the right, which will result in a weak out of range right hand while if your opponents footing is good then your going to be in range to recieve perhaps damaging attacks but not throw any real damaging ones in return (this isnt good). taking the back foot with you before you throw the right is going to put you in range to land a damaging right hand aswell as recieve one, which is obveousely the desired scenario.

Aswell this will allow greater mobility and economy of energy, as you wont have ended up dropping down into a wider stance which can be draining to be continuousely having to get back out of the hole your putting youself in, in a hurry.

[cambay411]

Very well said, it just seems to me the small step on this punch has to do more with angles than a punching technique and needs set up in order to work your way inside. Wayne, you were talking about placement of the back foot on the straight, if you were trying to throw that straight right to the body would you leave that back foot there?

[WayneFlint]

No if you do this step you will be doing the same thing you do with a straight right to the head but because your going low down with the shot the back foot being left behind will cause the exact same problems and exagerate them as you will find yourself leaving the back foot even further behind than you would with a straight right to the head. let your knees take you down with the shot rather than bending at the waist and reaching, try and make sure your right heel is under your ass as much as it can be, scrap used to say to me on these forums in a way what is more simple to understand is if your heel had an eye make sure it can see the target its aiming for and the line of sight isnt blocked by your ass. this will enable proper range and the ability to drive through with the shot if necessary.

[jahmez]

When people say they're transferring their weight to their front foot they don't necessarily mean that they're throwing their entire body forward. Also some of the sarcasm and pretentious "" shit you get on here makes me wonder if I'm in a boxing forum talking to boxers or in a cafe having to listen to bunch of foppish uni poonces debate the importance of the modern man wearing a scarf and vest. If someone doesn't agree with you there's no need to act like a wanker.

[cambay411]

Agreed jahmez, we all share the common bond of being fighters. We may not bleed and sweat on each other everyday has we do with our training partners, but we do go to the gym, put in work, get punched in the face, as well as punch ppl in the face then get ready to do it again the next day. Not only do we do this everyday but we love it. I try to be open minded to everyones technique. If im not i feel like i shut myself off to learning new things, and as a fighter i need to grow as a fighter as much as i can. I appreciate everyones opinions on this website and also have learned alot from this website. So thank you Wayne, scrap, herb, jahmez, badri_hari and the many others (sorry if i didnt mention you) who go out of there way on here to help explain the sport of boxing to us.