Vladimir Klitschko really this good or just bad contenders??

[El Kabong]

Prime Mike Tyson versus Wlad?

OK well this is a tough one to call as Wlad hasn't necessarily fought anyone like Tyson and Prime Tyson never fought anyone like Wlad but just for shits and giggles I'll answer this (objectively, I'll certainly try)

I see the fight a down the middle 50/50...early round stoppages 80/20 in favor of Tyson, later round stoppages and/or a decision 80/20 in favor of Wladimir.

The case for Mike Tyson:
I'm sure if you ask any boxing fan "Which one fighter of all time would really be a threat to Wlad Prime for Prime" plenty of people would say Tyson (lots would say Ali or Lewis, but I think more would say Tyson). Tyson had solid defense, a hell of a chin, and very quick, powerful, accurate hands. Tyson had great balance, he countered very well, and he was able to throw punches in combinations (something to my knowledge Wlad hasn't seen). Wlad is a head hunter and often forgets all about body work and in doing that the crouch and peek-a-boo defense CAN become even more effective as can the rolling and countering. If Tyson could slip the 1-2 and get to the inside to rip off a combination before Wlad tied up then I would safely assume Wlad would either be in big trouble or go down, but either way the fight would be over shortly if that process was repeated. Mike Tyson would need to create angles, make Wlad miss with the right hand, perhaps initiate a clinch, break, and then leap right back in with a combination catching Wlad off guard. Tyson would want to fight a little rougher than Wlad is used to in order to get him off his game (kind of like Chambers tried to) if he's able to distract Wladimir it may be easier to land a big overhand right or left hook.

The case for Wladimir Klitschko:
If anyone has the style blueprint to abuse Mike Tyson's crouched fighting style it's Wladimir. Wlad fights tall, he has a very efficient offense, one of the best jabs in the history of the fight game, and he moves fairly well in the ring. In order to nullify Mike Tyson's attack one needs to know control the space in the ring and Wladimir has learned how to do that very well. Wlad wants to be at distance or tied up and there's no inbetween until the fight is almost sealed up. To make space his friend Wlad would need to pop the jab occasionally hook off the jab (hooking vs Tyson is VERY dangerous) and make sure that right cross is accurate, timed perfectly, and powerful. If Tyson slips his way inside Wlad would need to tie up immediately to avoid Tyson's work to the body and ANYTHING coming up top. The key to Wlad's safety if he misses the jab is keeping the jab out stretched and circling away from danger with (and this is very important) his guard up and tight. If Wlad accomplishes 5 rounds of distance control, ring generalship, and accurate punches it would only be a matter of time before Tyson gave up on himself...he'd slowly stop moving his head, he'd slowly stop trying to find angles or work inside, he'd allow Wlad to tie him up on the inside and he's eat big punches for it.

The height, weight, and reach all favor Wladimir. The handspeed, chin, and combination punching all favor Tyson. I think power is a push, both these guys do damage in the ring and have outstanding KO percentages. Tyson does his work early, Wlad does his late, but both get the result.

I hope I made an acceptable go of it, I did try to be objective, and I hope you don't see my seeing it 50/50 as a cop out, I genuinely see it that way just given the styles and skill levels of both fighters.

[Balboa]

Excellent post on Wlad vs Tyson. Spot on.

VITALI vs Mike is equally intriguing.

Vitali, and some of you may disagree, has NEVER been beat in my opinion. He pulls out of the Byrd fight (and damaged his reputation somewhat) and I believe (hugely and respectfully debateable) he would have taken Lennox if the fight had not been stopped. Conditioning arguments aside, and how Lewis MAY or MAY NOT have come on late aside, I think Vitali had his number. It said a great deal to me also that Lennox never wanted a rematch.

That said though, Vitali vs Mike. How juicy is this?

I consider Vitali to be the smarter of the two brothers as far as boxing approach and experience. He's always been ridiculously well composed and calculated in the ring. Sounds safety first, yes? Check out the KO ratio. Yes he's safe, but he's simultaneously knocking out EVERYBODY. He does not get overly emotional and I believe even more than Wladimir, Vitali has the patience and mindset to weather tropical storm Tyson in the first five to six rounds. Earmuffs up, jabbing off the back foot, tying up, and keeping range.

The thread is about Wladimir I know, I just hate to see the opportunity of a Vitali/Tyson possiblity go untalked about.

I am a HUGE Tyson fan, and that said I STILL think Vitali would wear him down, in their primes, and KO Iron Mike late. Lennox Lewis landed some hellacious shots on Vitali. They cut him up, yes, but Vitali was nowhere near put away. Ive always wished to see the end of that fight, and I maintain had it not been stopped we would have seen (similar to Foreman/Lyle) two very tired heavies in the later rounds teeing off with Vitali getting the better of it. It's impossible for me to picture Vitali hurt by anything short of a Howitzer.


Someone tell me of a punch that wobbled the hell out of Vitali. Ever. Or a time when he fought scared because he was concerned of incoming thunder?

The brothers Klitschko are underrated. And Vitali, especially, is seriously underrated. Hell the guy is 40 and Im still not sure there's anyone out there that can beat him.

[0james0]

Agree with you both.

Nice to see a fair and objective view on a Klitschko.

I just can't see past a prime Tyson against anyone. I think that at the top of his game he would have beaten anyone, including Wlad.

I agree with Lyle though (did I just say that?) the longer the fight goes on, the more I see Tyson getting frustrated and losing his game plan.

It's too hard to call though, it would just depend on the night I guess. Wlad would certainly be capable of pulling off a points win just because he could stay at the end of the jab all fight.

I'd love to see a Tyson esq fighter on the scene now. It's exactly what the division needs. Someone with power and movement.

[El Kabong]

Someone tell me of a punch that wobbled the hell out of Vitali. Ever. Or a time when he fought scared because he was concerned of incoming thunder?

I will say Vitali should have had 1 knockdown scored against him vs Sanders....I think Corrie Sanders is one of the most underrated punchers in the game, he had hellacious power, he just didn't bother training. Vitali also got rocked by a few Lennox Lewis uppercuts but held on obviously.

I would have loved a rematch of Lewis-Vitali, I think that coupled with Lennox Lewis' aversion to give due credit to Vitali really robbed fight fans of a "torch passing" moment. But I understand why Lennox wouldn't do such a thing.

I think a Tyson-Vitali fight would have really favored Vitali based on his chin and awkwardness. Vitali also has a very underrated defense when it comes to blocking punches to the body. Since both Vitali's arms are down he covers his body completely and he's 6'8 so unless Mike has a step stool he's not going to catch him in the head all that easily....I would say 70/30 in favor of Vitali, the 30 being if Tyson was able ot break down the body or Vitali gets hurt or cut or what have you....hard to justify a Tyson early KO of someone as durable in the chin as Vitali, equally hard to justify seeing Tyson take away a points win....not saying it couldn't happen though

[0james0]

Prime Wlad vs prime Vitali?

I'm sure there's a hundred threads on it, but who have you got?

[El Kabong]

Oddly enough I have Wlad winning that one for a couple reasons.
1. Wlad knows Vitali's style as they used to spar and Wlad has seen Vitali train on numerous occassions.

2. Wlad is hands down the better BOXER

3. I think Wlad has always hit harder than Vitali

4. Wlad's jab is 100 X's better than Vitali's who does just paw with it.

5. As a younger brother myself, I think all little brothers when pitted against their elders really try to prove themselves whereas the older brother may just try to go easy on them. This is subconsciously of course.

I wonder who Manny Steward would pick

[Taeth]

Both brothers IMO would beat Tyson, Wlad has the perfect blue print to beat Tyson, who for all his bobbing and weaving could be controlled by a good jab and holding on the inside. Wlad is much harder to hit leaping in then Lewis was. Lewis had a better chin and more ko power than Wladimir, but he wasn't as strong and he was sloppier defensively because he didn't prepare as much and he didn't have a glass chin. If Tyson was like Duran when it came to working through the clinch to get punches off then he would beat Wladimir, but he wasn't built like that, Tyson was so focused on getting full leverage shots off on the inside that he couldn't throw while being tied up at all.

[El Kabong]

Tyson seemed to be on top of his game when his opponent was either in full retreat/scared to engage or just looking to mix it up....I don't think that Tyson ever fought anyone (until Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis) looking to protect themselves AND do damage it was usually one or the other. Wlad would NEVER come right out of the gate and jump all over Tyson and try to knock him out, he would set up the jab, make Tyson chase him a bit, lean on him, wear him down, drop the right cross in and once that found a home it would just be a matter of time before Tyson's Plan A wilted and he would be left with Hail Mary type bombs as his saving grace and I doubt those would work (given Wlad fights that plan to a T)

[rjj tszyu]

Tyson seemed to be on top of his game when his opponent was either in full retreat/scared to engage or just looking to mix it up....I don't think that Tyson ever fought anyone (until Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis) looking to protect themselves AND do damage it was usually one or the other. Wlad would NEVER come right out of the gate and jump all over Tyson and try to knock him out, he would set up the jab, make Tyson chase him a bit, lean on him, wear him down, drop the right cross in and once that found a home it would just be a matter of time before Tyson's Plan A wilted and he would be left with Hail Mary type bombs as his saving grace and I doubt those would work (given Wlad fights that plan to a T)

I don't think it was that they weren't trying to protect themselves and do damage, I think Tysons power and speed was too much for them to handle until he run into Douglas, remember he didn't really have much in the way of class opponents in the 80's especially. In fact Tyson's biggest win was probably either an old Holmes or a very out of his depth Michael Spinks.

As for the Douglas fight though Tyson looked very sluggish and out of shape to me and had there been a rematch I would have gone for an early demolition for Tyson.

Wlad though for me, would be worried about the reputation of Tyson and I also think the combination of power and speed from Tyson would cause Wlad fits. Also I think Tyson's early days head movement would be the ideal way to get past the admittedly very good jab of Klitschko and once he got past that I only see a Tyson KO.

If though he could control the fight with his jab and hold Tyson every time he did get inside, a bit like Ferguson did and take it past say the 8th round then I wouldn't be surprised by a Wlad KO.

My money would be on Tyson KO though.

[El Kabong]

A thing that Wlad does that really negates any retaliation from him missing a jab is that he'll circle out of danger with his left arm extended thereby keeping his opponents usually out of range and simultaneously using it to measure for his own right cross......I think if Wlad was able to use that effectively against Tyson then it would only be a matter of time before Wlad took him out. But I do see your points....I don't know if Wlad would be bothered by Tyson's reputation so much as the early pressure and danger Tyson would present to him.

[rjj tszyu]

A thing that Wlad does that really negates any retaliation from him missing a jab is that he'll circle out of danger with his left arm extended thereby keeping his opponents usually out of range and simultaneously using it to measure for his own right cross......I think if Wlad was able to use that effectively against Tyson then it would only be a matter of time before Wlad took him out. But I do see your points....I don't know if Wlad would be bothered by Tyson's reputation so much as the early pressure and danger Tyson would present to him.

The reason I feel he would be bothered about Tysons rep is basically because his style since being KO'd has become quite negative anyway obviously due to the fact he knows his chin isn't great now. Well Tyson made people fight like that anyway and I just feel everyone Tyson fought other than Holyfield felt some intimidation and I feel Wlad would also. This might actually be a good thing for Wlad in this matchup though to be honest.

[0james0]

Which then leads on to, when was Wlad's prime? Pre being knocked out, or after?

I personally think his style developed into much of what it is now after the losses and he is a far better fighter because of it. So I would say he is in his prime now (Wlad that is)

However, the more cautious approach I think would favour Tyson as he would eventually get through that big long outstretched arm being held in his face.

Pre losses, I think it would have been even easier for Tyson as the defence just wasn't as good as it is now, he was troubled far more often than he ever is now. Quality of opponents maybe?

Vitali slightly different as I don't think he has the fear factor in him still, the guy is yet to be beat (injury & cut stoppage when winning on cards doesn't really count) so doesn't fear being knocked out as much, maybe he learnt from his younger brothers mistakes.

[ICB]

Both brothers IMO would beat Tyson, Wlad has the perfect blue print to beat Tyson, who for all his bobbing and weaving could be controlled by a good jab and holding on the inside. Wlad is much harder to hit leaping in then Lewis was. Lewis had a better chin and more ko power than Wladimir, but he wasn't as strong and he was sloppier defensively because he didn't prepare as much and he didn't have a glass chin. If Tyson was like Duran when it came to working through the clinch to get punches off then he would beat Wladimir, but he wasn't built like that, Tyson was so focused on getting full leverage shots off on the inside that he couldn't throw while being tied up at all.

To be fair though most of the opponents who clinched Mike Tyson, were just trying to survive. Mike Tyson was able to beat 3 skillful 6'5 Heavyweight's like Carl Williams, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs. I think Mike Tyson could slip Wladimir Klitschko's jab and KO him personally.

As for Vitali Klitschko's he's leaning back style would cause more problems. Plus because he's chin is pretty solid, he could take Mike Tyson 12 rounds and possibly beat him on points. Would be close though i can't really decide.

[boxingbantz]

As good as they are, I'll still look forward to the day Haye gets in the ring with one of them and knocks them out!

Mate, take off your St George Tinted Specs.

Haye wouldn't knock either of them out. They'd jab his chicken head off.

[Balboa]

The Haye vs Klitschko comments keep me in stitches.


David Haye has a shot like any boxer with a good punch has a shot. Yes, yes, hypothetically he could catch one of them cold and early with a right hand like any number of heavies have been upset over the years. Almost any heavyweight could be substituted in for Haye and have the same thing said. Hasim Rahman, Oleg Maskaev, Cris Arreola, Samuel Peter, etc etc, ad nauseum. That's boxing. It happens.

But chances are so slim, and fading faster and faster as the rounds go on, that this ACTUALLY happens.

Hey, I reeeeaaalllly wanted Ricky Hatton to beat Pacman, and you see where all my wishing got me.

David Haye is a chump. A quasi-talented cruiserweight with a decent punch now trying to make a living in the land of the giants. End of story. Now if he decideds to run and hide or keep getting injured for another few years and finally signs to fight the brothers in their 40's I say his chances climb.

Today and tomorrow though, either Klitschko retires him.


Someone help me though. What is the fascination with Haye? Is it because there's no Tysons and Bowes running around? Are we that desperate?