Philly shell vs other stances

[HerbM]

Are there any (significant) differences between the Philly Shell and the "Stonewall defense" promoted by Champ Thomas? (See the downloadable books in the Useful/Important posts subforum.)

If not, my first thought would be to read all of the Thomas material as he is almost completely devoted to this stance.

Also, there is mention of the Philly Shell by name in the Hatmaker book Boxing Mastery (where I went to check my understanding of the Philly Shell before posting this reply.)

I believe Nikola's only negative point was meant to say (something like): It's difficult to find a trainer/coach who is both open to this option and experienced in teaching it.

That is certainly true for me, and has stood in my way from trying this option.

As I am an older boxer who will almost certainly never box competitively nor seriously, much of my boxing training is personally focused on improving my general self-defense skills and both supplementing and integrating my skills from other combat arts under realistic (fully resisting opponent with forceful blows) conditions.

The Philly Shell actually resembles one nearly passive (but very protective) PRE-fight stance: The Jack Benny: One hand horizontal to the opposite elbow with that second arm vertical with the hand AT the chin.

This is a very good PRE-fight stance during the time one is attempting to defuse a situation, avoid a fight, or determine if criminal attack is about to be launched.

My tendency is to believe that the similarities are NOT accidental.

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HerbM

[nikola_ganchev]

Hi HerbM,
You are absolutely right.There are alot of exact matches, because boxing has evolved from free fight and when you fight without big handgloves you must use robuster parts of your body(forearms and sholders) and you must be much more elusive(not like the new UFC guys eating punches like candys)... I think there is no difference between Stone wall and philly shell too. Only in the stone wall Champ Thomas has forgoten some very important things like rythm...

[Scrap]

The 1st guy I saw using it was Charly Burly. its not new .

[Scrap]

In fact ive fallen in love with the technique, but it has to be worked on. Needs high concentration levels to practice it, plus other things come of it.

[cambay411]

Hey herb i read the Champ Thomas book and the philly shell is the exact stance he loves and focuses on. The main reason i started this thread was to find out why everyone says not to use it. Also i would love for someone to tell me all they can about the shoulder roll because everytime i read something on the internet it says the shoulder roll is important when using the philly shell. Speaking of Champs Thomas' book, i believe he says very little, if anything at all about the shoulder roll. I am going to read through it again though to make sure. Thanks for the help everyone it has helped alot!

[nikola_ganchev]

When you put your left hand down and relaxes your sholder you give a target for the right hands...This target is more imaginary than real because if you stay back there and prepared for them, its really easy to block or roll with them. Your oponent will commit on trowing the right hands and so, as Scrap says, you must maintain your concentration. I love to think abaut the defencive techniques like puches but without trowing them. The mechanics behind sliping, rolling, ducking is the same. First you must have rythm in order to make the movements happen fast as possible. For example if boxer caches anoder boxer with a combo and he wants to go backwards, how do you thing he is going to initiate the movement faster:staying flat footed or in the backwards motion from the rythm... And then the second part, in order to make this defensive moves you must turn your sholders, load up the hand in which direction you are going and stay balanced in order to trow punch or move after that... Sounds pretty much llike punching for me. And last point on rythm. If you make at abaut 120 130 bounces per minute you are using the elasticity of your muscles and you spend almost no energy in doing so. If you dont have it you are going to stay flat footed because its un natural to stay on ball of your foot not moving and you are going to get tired pretty fast...

I think that the first boxer that i see using the defence was jack dempsey... He used it from a crauch in order to get near to his oponent. With his constant bobing and rolling he was famous to be very hard to hit and when he take a shot it wasnt flush. The shots were soften by hitting first the scholder and then falling under a big angle on the top of the head (which deflected even more the power) or when he was going backwards with the shot... In boxing you are gonna take alot of punches... But the question is how you are gonna take them?

[cambay411]

Thank you nikola your threads are very informitive. Question about the shoulder roll. Can it be used in like a pushing motion like when some throws a straight, as they do that i turn my shoulder to the inside, the punch makes contact with the front deltoid part of my shoulder which pushes his fist out of the way. Similar to the motion when you whipe someones jab, or parry a jab (i hope you understand this lol). Or should i focus mainly on just blocking the punch with the shoulder. Also when my opponent throws a punch with his left hand should i only block with my right side? And when he throws with his right should i only block with my left? I hope this all makes since. Thank you again and any more info you can give helps alot. I like this stance because i can strike out of it very effectivly but dont know alot about the defensive side and i have no one to teach me about it.

[DaxxKahn]

In fact ive fallen in love with the technique, but it has to be worked on. Needs high concentration levels to practice it, plus other things come of it.

Certainly there is....The style is not to be used by everyone...You MUST be able to adapt your offense to it as well....Far too moften guys try to use this style and take more punishment then need be due to the fact they can not adhere it properly....It is a very relaxed style.....It also can not be confused with a style where other guys just roll with shots....One of the best modern day fighters to be able and roll with shots and not take abuse in doing so is James Toney

[HerbM]

Have you (or has everyone) noticed that at the bottom of each thread there is a "Similar Threads" area?

• How DO I DO the Philly shell??
  
  
• TOP 10 best ever users of the PHILLY SHELL DEFENSE
  
  
• The Shell/Crab Method
  
  

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HerbM