Whitaker vs Duran @ lightweight

[johnsebastianmiran]

Ramirez and Chavez are not Duran Duran's training regimen alone indicated his endurance and the fact that when he moved in on his opponents, he ws not easy to hit. At lightweight most experts agree that he was awesome and he had many quality opponents throughout his career. True Whitaker was robbed in those two fights and I agree but films tell the story. I thought Buchanan was really fast because he beat another lightweight great Ismael Laguna who was the Panamanian version of Whitaker at lightweight and then cme twenty one year old Duran who evolved with every fight at lightweight and fought Esteban Dejesus in three wars of boxing slugging and technics that revealed those boxing skills he used on Leonard too.

[generalbulldog]

Ramirez and Chavez are not Duran Duran's training regimen alone indicated his endurance and the fact that when he moved in on his opponents, he ws not easy to hit. At lightweight most experts agree that he was awesome and he had many quality opponents throughout his career. True Whitaker was robbed in those two fights and I agree but films tell the story. I thought Buchanan was really fast because he beat another lightweight great Ismael Laguna who was the Panamanian version of Whitaker at lightweight and then cme twenty one year old Duran who evolved with every fight at lightweight and fought Esteban Dejesus in three wars of boxing slugging and technics that revealed those boxing skills he used on Leonard too.

You're right Duran isn't a Chavez or Ramirez, but on the other hand Whitaker is no Dejesus, Buchanan, Vilomar Fernandez, or any of the other lw opponents he faced.

Duran decisively lost to Dejesus, while Whitaker did not decisively lose to Ramirez.
Whitaker's style, defensive abilities, and movement would pose serious challenges to Duran's aggressive style. Whitaker was a master at fighting off the backfoot and making his opponents miss. Therefore I take Whitaker over Duran in a mythical matchup.

Again who beat Whitaker decisively at LW or in his prime for that matter? The answer is no one did.

[Beanflicker]

Coincidentally, I watched Duran/Buchanan again last night and during the fight I pictured Pernell instead of Buchanan, and what he would do in those situations.

Obviously Pernell would end up taking a lot more punches than he usually does, but I still see him out-slicking Duran.

I don't think Duran had a chance in hell of KO'ing Pernell. Duran hit like a horse but I don't feel he had the one-punch power to put Pernell down for good, and I also don't think he'd be able to land his regular accumulation on punches on Pernell to wear him down and stop him.

I just think people underrate Pernell. He wasn't feather fisted like people say he was. He was no Tommy Hearns obviously, but he wasn't a Willie Pep either.

I bet if JCC/Sweet Pea never happened, a minority of people here would pick Pernell to win, much less embarrass him like he did.

[JonnyFolds]

Coincidentally, I watched Duran/Buchanan again last night and during the fight I pictured Pernell instead of Buchanan, and what he would do in those situations.

Obviously Pernell would end up taking a lot more punches than he usually does, but I still see him out-slicking Duran.

I don't think Duran had a chance in hell of KO'ing Pernell. Duran hit like a horse but I don't feel he had the one-punch power to put Pernell down for good, and I also don't think he'd be able to land his regular accumulation on punches on Pernell to wear him down and stop him.

I just think people underrate Pernell. He wasn't feather fisted like people say he was. He was no Tommy Hearns obviously, but he wasn't a Willie Pep either.

I bet if JCC/Sweet Pea never happened, a minority of people here would pick Pernell to win, much less embarrass him like he did.

Duran, for CERTAIN, had one punch KO power. He only became a volume puncher when he was up in MW, b/c that power did not carry but so well..

Duran would knock people's shoes off at LW!

You're probably right about SweetPea and JCC, but that fight was a career defining performance for SweetPea.. Without that fight he would be nothing all that special. To exist as a boxer in the 90s and be anywhere close to 140.. your ass is going to have to face JCC. And, as the (JCC's)record shows, most of these guys met their maker after getting in the ring with him.

I don't think many would argue Duran had tougher opposition, and a slightly longer career than SweetPea. It's a really hard fight to call for sure. And I would bet the scoring would be hell!

Great points by everyone...

[ICB]

Coincidentally, I watched Duran/Buchanan again last night and during the fight I pictured Pernell instead of Buchanan, and what he would do in those situations.

Obviously Pernell would end up taking a lot more punches than he usually does, but I still see him out-slicking Duran.

I don't think Duran had a chance in hell of KO'ing Pernell. Duran hit like a horse but I don't feel he had the one-punch power to put Pernell down for good, and I also don't think he'd be able to land his regular accumulation on punches on Pernell to wear him down and stop him.

I just think people underrate Pernell. He wasn't feather fisted like people say he was. He was no Tommy Hearns obviously, but he wasn't a Willie Pep either.

I bet if JCC/Sweet Pea never happened, a minority of people here would pick Pernell to win, much less embarrass him like he did.

Duran, for CERTAIN, had one punch KO power. He only became a volume puncher when he was up in MW, b/c that power did not carry but so well..

Duran would knock people's shoes off at LW!

You're probably right about SweetPea and JCC, but that fight was a career defining performance for SweetPea.. Without that fight he would be nothing all that special. To exist as a boxer in the 90s and be anywhere close to 140.. your ass is going to have to face JCC. And, as the (JCC's)record shows, most of these guys met their maker after getting in the ring with him.

I don't think many would argue Duran had tougher opposition, and a slightly longer career than SweetPea. It's a really hard fight to call for sure. And I would bet the scoring would be hell!

Great points by everyone...

What about his performances vs.

ODLH
Azumah Nelson
Jose Luis Ramirez
Buddy McGirt

ETC.

Thats silly thing to say in all honesty, because i could easily bring up Roberto Duran being embarrased by fighters like Kirkland Laing, Wilfred Benitez, Thomas Hearns, Robbie Simms.

No one's disputing Roberto Duran was a great Lightweight, but saying Pernell Whitaker wouldn't be that special without the JCC win is nonsense. He was rated P4P number 2 before he even fought JCC.

And he had plenty of shut out victories against very good fighters.

[milmascaras1]

i think whitaker was a great, great defensive fighter but against duran, he would have been outgunned especially in a 15 rounder. and i do believe whitaker would have run all night long after he felt duran's power at lightweight, which would of swayed the judges in duran's favor because of his willingness to take the fight to whitaker.

you can make the argument that whitaker beats duran at welterweight but not at lightweight. this was duran's most effective weight and he would of dominated the "cutesy" whitaker and won by a fairly wide UD.

[Beanflicker]

you can make the argument that whitaker beats duran at welterweight but not at lightweight. this was duran's most effective weight and he would of dominated the "cutesy" whitaker and won by a fairly wide UD.

I don't think there was a LW in history who could "dominate" Sweet Pea.

I guess I'm sounding like a Pernell nuthugger, but I just honestly think it doesn't get much better than Sweet Pea

[Beanflicker]

Duran, for CERTAIN, had one punch KO power. He only became a volume puncher when he was up in MW, b/c that power did not carry but so well.

To clearify I never suggest Duran didn't have one punch KO power. I've seen enough of his fights to know Manos de Piedra (sp?) isn't a cute nickname he gave himself.

I'm just saying I don't think he has enough one punch KO power to spark Pernell. Thats no knock on Duran because like others pointed out Pernell was made of iron. Its like me saying Joe Frazier didn't have the one-punch KO power to spark Ali. Its no knock on Joe, just sayign Ali was a tough nut to crack.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Ramirez and Chavez are not Duran Duran's training regimen alone indicated his endurance and the fact that when he moved in on his opponents, he ws not easy to hit. At lightweight most experts agree that he was awesome and he had many quality opponents throughout his career. True Whitaker was robbed in those two fights and I agree but films tell the story. I thought Buchanan was really fast because he beat another lightweight great Ismael Laguna who was the Panamanian version of Whitaker at lightweight and then cme twenty one year old Duran who evolved with every fight at lightweight and fought Esteban Dejesus in three wars of boxing slugging and technics that revealed those boxing skills he used on Leonard too.

You're right Duran isn't a Chavez or Ramirez, but on the other hand Whitaker is no Dejesus, Buchanan, Vilomar Fernandez, or any of the other lw opponents he faced.

Duran decisively lost to Dejesus, while Whitaker did not decisively lose to Ramirez.
Whitaker's style, defensive abilities, and movement would pose serious challenges to Duran's aggressive style. Whitaker was a master at fighting off the backfoot and making his opponents miss. Therefore I take Whitaker over Duran in a mythical matchup.

Again who beat Whitaker decisively at LW or in his prime for that matter? The answer is no one did.

I wouldn't sell Esteban De Jesus short, in any other era he would be regarded as a great Lightweight champion of the world. De Jesus would have given Whitaker a hard fight too.

[ICB]

Ramirez and Chavez are not Duran Duran's training regimen alone indicated his endurance and the fact that when he moved in on his opponents, he ws not easy to hit. At lightweight most experts agree that he was awesome and he had many quality opponents throughout his career. True Whitaker was robbed in those two fights and I agree but films tell the story. I thought Buchanan was really fast because he beat another lightweight great Ismael Laguna who was the Panamanian version of Whitaker at lightweight and then cme twenty one year old Duran who evolved with every fight at lightweight and fought Esteban Dejesus in three wars of boxing slugging and technics that revealed those boxing skills he used on Leonard too.

Ismael Laguna was shot when he lost to Ken Buchanan, that was right at the end of his career.