Whitaker vs Duran @ lightweight

[JonnyFolds]

Coincidentally, I watched Duran/Buchanan again last night and during the fight I pictured Pernell instead of Buchanan, and what he would do in those situations.

Obviously Pernell would end up taking a lot more punches than he usually does, but I still see him out-slicking Duran.

I don't think Duran had a chance in hell of KO'ing Pernell. Duran hit like a horse but I don't feel he had the one-punch power to put Pernell down for good, and I also don't think he'd be able to land his regular accumulation on punches on Pernell to wear him down and stop him.

I just think people underrate Pernell. He wasn't feather fisted like people say he was. He was no Tommy Hearns obviously, but he wasn't a Willie Pep either.

I bet if JCC/Sweet Pea never happened, a minority of people here would pick Pernell to win, much less embarrass him like he did.

Duran, for CERTAIN, had one punch KO power. He only became a volume puncher when he was up in MW, b/c that power did not carry but so well..

Duran would knock people's shoes off at LW!

You're probably right about SweetPea and JCC, but that fight was a career defining performance for SweetPea.. Without that fight he would be nothing all that special. To exist as a boxer in the 90s and be anywhere close to 140.. your ass is going to have to face JCC. And, as the (JCC's)record shows, most of these guys met their maker after getting in the ring with him.

I don't think many would argue Duran had tougher opposition, and a slightly longer career than SweetPea. It's a really hard fight to call for sure. And I would bet the scoring would be hell!

Great points by everyone...

[ICB]

Coincidentally, I watched Duran/Buchanan again last night and during the fight I pictured Pernell instead of Buchanan, and what he would do in those situations.

Obviously Pernell would end up taking a lot more punches than he usually does, but I still see him out-slicking Duran.

I don't think Duran had a chance in hell of KO'ing Pernell. Duran hit like a horse but I don't feel he had the one-punch power to put Pernell down for good, and I also don't think he'd be able to land his regular accumulation on punches on Pernell to wear him down and stop him.

I just think people underrate Pernell. He wasn't feather fisted like people say he was. He was no Tommy Hearns obviously, but he wasn't a Willie Pep either.

I bet if JCC/Sweet Pea never happened, a minority of people here would pick Pernell to win, much less embarrass him like he did.

Duran, for CERTAIN, had one punch KO power. He only became a volume puncher when he was up in MW, b/c that power did not carry but so well..

Duran would knock people's shoes off at LW!

You're probably right about SweetPea and JCC, but that fight was a career defining performance for SweetPea.. Without that fight he would be nothing all that special. To exist as a boxer in the 90s and be anywhere close to 140.. your ass is going to have to face JCC. And, as the (JCC's)record shows, most of these guys met their maker after getting in the ring with him.

I don't think many would argue Duran had tougher opposition, and a slightly longer career than SweetPea. It's a really hard fight to call for sure. And I would bet the scoring would be hell!

Great points by everyone...

What about his performances vs.

ODLH
Azumah Nelson
Jose Luis Ramirez
Buddy McGirt

ETC.

Thats silly thing to say in all honesty, because i could easily bring up Roberto Duran being embarrased by fighters like Kirkland Laing, Wilfred Benitez, Thomas Hearns, Robbie Simms.

No one's disputing Roberto Duran was a great Lightweight, but saying Pernell Whitaker wouldn't be that special without the JCC win is nonsense. He was rated P4P number 2 before he even fought JCC.

And he had plenty of shut out victories against very good fighters.

[milmascaras1]

i think whitaker was a great, great defensive fighter but against duran, he would have been outgunned especially in a 15 rounder. and i do believe whitaker would have run all night long after he felt duran's power at lightweight, which would of swayed the judges in duran's favor because of his willingness to take the fight to whitaker.

you can make the argument that whitaker beats duran at welterweight but not at lightweight. this was duran's most effective weight and he would of dominated the "cutesy" whitaker and won by a fairly wide UD.

[Beanflicker]

you can make the argument that whitaker beats duran at welterweight but not at lightweight. this was duran's most effective weight and he would of dominated the "cutesy" whitaker and won by a fairly wide UD.

I don't think there was a LW in history who could "dominate" Sweet Pea.

I guess I'm sounding like a Pernell nuthugger, but I just honestly think it doesn't get much better than Sweet Pea

[Manju]

This is a close one.

If Sweat Pea vs JCC is the model, then Pernel has the edge, since he effectively defanged Chavez. But Duran was not as methodological, ie predicatable, as JCC, was better defensively, and a tad more bloodthirsty. He was also harder to outbox.

To address Duran-Leonard II and the CV that Duran quit b/c he was being out-boxed and humiliated. If you watch the fight, Leonard wasn't really outboxing him. He was certainly using a lot of movement but Duran cunningly refused to move forward, unlike Hagler and in great contrast to Chavez (with Whitaker).

So the early rounds were close, with Duran effectively neutralizing SRLs strategy by forcing SRL to come to him. However, once he did, SRL was able to beat Duran to the punch on the inside. Then he would scooter away b/f Duran could get in a big shot.

This is really what frustrated Duran. In one round and I thnk in the beggining of another, SRL began to showboat, to use the bolo punch, stick out his neck, etc. Everyone remembers that and thinks thats why Duran quit. But if you watch the tape, SRL wasn't showboating at the time of the no mas. Rather he began to out-punch Duran and send him backwards. In essence his movement enabled his power.

so (oddly) this means I give an edge to Duran, becase sweet pea doesn't thave SRL power and if you go backwards on duran so he can't catch you, he'll just smartly stand in the midde of the ring. This will force Sweet Pea to fight more stationary, which he's very good at (like PBF was agaisnt mosely) but not good enough to beat a peak Duran, imo.

Close though.

[milmascaras1]

beanflicker,

maybe i did exaggerate a bit about duran "dominating" whitaker. you're right, nobody could have done that because he was too good a defensive fighter.

[Beanflicker]

Hey to each his own, its all opinion anyway and we'll never know for sure.

I just can't picture anybody in the history of LW dominating sweet pea. he was such a hard guy to fight, prime pea wins at least 4 or 5 rounds against anyone IMO.

[Majesty]

Anyone that thinks Duran would knock out Whitaker is fooling themselves.

[Beanflicker]

Duran, for CERTAIN, had one punch KO power. He only became a volume puncher when he was up in MW, b/c that power did not carry but so well.

To clearify I never suggest Duran didn't have one punch KO power. I've seen enough of his fights to know Manos de Piedra (sp?) isn't a cute nickname he gave himself.

I'm just saying I don't think he has enough one punch KO power to spark Pernell. Thats no knock on Duran because like others pointed out Pernell was made of iron. Its like me saying Joe Frazier didn't have the one-punch KO power to spark Ali. Its no knock on Joe, just sayign Ali was a tough nut to crack.