Who's next for Wladimir?

[El Kabong]

I disagree, i think Audley would beat Peter, like he did in the amateurs. You could make a case for Audley beating all of those. Of course you could make a case for them all beating him. What you have to decide is which is worse...

A) - Haye fighting Audley, after fighting Ruiz and after travelling to fight Valuev

or B) - Wlad Peter (despite already beating him fairly easily), Chambers, Chagaev, Rahman, Thompson

In all honesty there's little in it. So it's hypocritical to call Haye for taking on an 'easy' fight when Wlad's recent resume is a who's who of decidedly average heavyweights.

Even after this loss I doubt Sam Peter loses to Audley....look at their ages Sam Peter 30, Audley Harrison 38...8 years doesn't seem like much now, but 20 vs 28 is a HUGE difference.

Everyone in A) was protected except Audley who just plain sucks. Chagaev (undefeated), Chambers (undefeated), Thompson (underrated), and Sam Peter was the mandatory after the #1 Contender backed out, and the best part Wladimir stopped them all even the ones that had never been stopped or even beaten before.....so I can't see how anyone can defend group A.

[generalbulldog]

I have to add 1 thing. Just because fighter A beats fighter B in the amateurs doesn't mean he does it in the pros. Henry Tillman for example, he beat both Evander Holyfield and Mike Tyson in the amateurs, then got ko by both in the pro game. Pros and amateurs are entirely different scenarios.

[El Kabong]

Also it needs to be stated Wladimir right now has 9 consecutive title defenses, which is tied with Mike Tyson at the moment...so 3-4 more years 2-3 fights a year, 20 consecutive title defenses isn't out of reach.

[generalbulldog]

Also it needs to be stated Wladimir right now has 9 consecutive title defenses, which is tied with Mike Tyson at the moment...so 3-4 more years 2-3 fights a year, 20 consecutive title defenses isn't out of reach.

I think title defenses should only count when they are recognized as the universal champ or lineal champ. Tyson only has 3 or 4 as the recognized 'man' in the division. Quite a few people out there don't recognize him as being the youngest champ over Patterson or that Tyson was not really champ until he beat the lineal champ in Spinks.

Wlad could get to 25 title defenses for his ABC straps and it would not be recognized as great as Joe Louis 25 title defenses. And I don't even need to get into the reason why, especially in a era of 4 champs per division by the ABCs.

[El Kabong]

I think title defenses should only count when they are recognized as the universal champ or lineal champ. Tyson only has 3 or 4 as the recognized 'man' in the division. Quite a few people out there don't recognize him as being the youngest champ over Patterson or that Tyson was not really champ until he beat the lineal champ in Spinks.

Wlad could get to 25 title defenses for his ABC straps and it would not be recognized as great as Joe Louis 25 title defenses. And I don't even need to get into the reason why, especially in a era of 4 champs per division by the ABCs.

OK so what are we not counting yet? Or do we start when Wlad beat Sultan? Do we start when Wlad beat Chagaev?

ono....fine whatever you say, without fighting ANYONE Chicken Little and now Audley Harrison could beat EVERYONE....fucking comical how that works out. Who beat these guys before Wlad? Who stopped them? Who dominated them? You know why Ruiz and Valuev never fought Wlad? Because Don King knew they would lose and Don King had no piece of Wladimir and wasn't going to have a piece of them and so he chose not to put his fighters in with guys that would beat them.

[generalbulldog]

I think title defenses should only count when they are recognized as the universal champ or lineal champ. Tyson only has 3 or 4 as the recognized 'man' in the division. Quite a few people out there don't recognize him as being the youngest champ over Patterson or that Tyson was not really champ until he beat the lineal champ in Spinks.

Wlad could get to 25 title defenses for his ABC straps and it would not be recognized as great as Joe Louis 25 title defenses. And I don't even need to get into the reason why, especially in a era of 4 champs per division by the ABCs.

OK so what are we not counting yet? Or do we start when Wlad beat Sultan? Do we start when Wlad beat Chagaev?

ono....fine whatever you say, without fighting ANYONE Chicken Little and now Audley Harrison could beat EVERYONE....fucking comical how that works out. Who beat these guys before Wlad? Who stopped them? Who dominated them? You know why Ruiz and Valuev never fought Wlad? Because Don King knew they would lose and Don King had no piece of Wladimir and wasn't going to have a piece of them and so he chose not to put his fighters in with guys that would beat them.

The point is title "defenses" today are almost meaningless unless one is the universal champ of the division because of the 4 champs per division. When Louis or Ali were HW champs, it wasn't even disputed, although the WBA did strip it's portion of the title from Ali when he beat Liston the 1st time, Ali was still recognized as the universal champ from boxing circles and the public.

So the question needs to be asked, when was Wlad recognized as the universal champ? And start counting his defenses from there.

ANd people need to stop bringing up performances that 1 fighter did to another in the amateurs, it doesn't mean jack in the pro game. By that logic Tillman should have beaten Tyson and Holyfield easily because he beat them in the amateurs, but reality was he got brutally knockout by both in the pros.

[armin]

I think you guys that are defending wlad just need to give up, its obvious haye is the heavyweight savior and we should be in awe of his powers. All opponents that wlad has fought have been shit and not basically the top rated at the time, every opponent he has ever fought have been handpicked bums and however long it took wlad to beat them, haye would have done it in a round...

[El Kabong]

One would hope that even Audley Harrison could beat that version of Danny Williams in the rematch. As for Sprott, nice "Hail Mary" punch that landed....I'd love to see that vs Chicken Little

[El Kabong]

Right HF, Chicken Little would KO this Ali guy faster than he'll KO Audley Harrison!

[amat]

Ono Audley has the talent to beat Peter for sure but he has done NOTHING as a pro to make anyone believe he would actually do so. With Thompson, Chambers and Chagaev, it's not even a question if they beat Audley imo. Raw talent isn't everyone, you have to be there mentally and Audley has never been there.

[ono]

I think title defenses should only count when they are recognized as the universal champ or lineal champ. Tyson only has 3 or 4 as the recognized 'man' in the division. Quite a few people out there don't recognize him as being the youngest champ over Patterson or that Tyson was not really champ until he beat the lineal champ in Spinks.

Wlad could get to 25 title defenses for his ABC straps and it would not be recognized as great as Joe Louis 25 title defenses. And I don't even need to get into the reason why, especially in a era of 4 champs per division by the ABCs.

OK so what are we not counting yet? Or do we start when Wlad beat Sultan? Do we start when Wlad beat Chagaev?

ono....fine whatever you say, without fighting ANYONE Chicken Little and now Audley Harrison could beat EVERYONE....fucking comical how that works out. Who beat these guys before Wlad? Who stopped them? Who dominated them? You know why Ruiz and Valuev never fought Wlad? Because Don King knew they would lose and Don King had no piece of Wladimir and wasn't going to have a piece of them and so he chose not to put his fighters in with guys that would beat them.

I never said either of them could beat anyone. I said you could make a case for Harrison beating Peter, as you could for him beating Thompson and Chambers. I also said you could make a case for him losing against all 3. The reason i said this, is because the difference in quality between all 4 fighters seriously isn't that great, and i believe Harrison is a more dangerous opponent for Haye, than any of the above 3 are for Wlad.

[amat]

Eh I guess we're just going to disagree then on everything but your last point. Of course there is a case to be made for Harrison beating those guys but it would be a huge upset imo. I mean none of those guys are going to be losing to Dominic Guinn or Michael Sprott anytime soon, just don't think Audley is mentally capable of beating a top 20 heavyweight.

I will say though that because he at least has a size advantage that he is more dangerous to Haye then any of those guys were to Wlad. That's because he has a size advantage only though. No way he wins though.

[ono]

I disagree, i think Audley would beat Peter, like he did in the amateurs. You could make a case for Audley beating all of those. Of course you could make a case for them all beating him. What you have to decide is which is worse...

A) - Haye fighting Audley, after fighting Ruiz and after travelling to fight Valuev

or B) - Wlad Peter (despite already beating him fairly easily), Chambers, Chagaev, Rahman, Thompson

In all honesty there's little in it. So it's hypocritical to call Haye for taking on an 'easy' fight when Wlad's recent resume is a who's who of decidedly average heavyweights.

Even after this loss I doubt Sam Peter loses to Audley....look at their ages Sam Peter 30, Audley Harrison 38...8 years doesn't seem like much now, but 20 vs 28 is a HUGE difference.

Everyone in A) was protected except Audley who just plain sucks. Chagaev (undefeated), Chambers (undefeated), Thompson (underrated), and Sam Peter was the mandatory after the #1 Contender backed out, and the best part Wladimir stopped them all even the ones that had never been stopped or even beaten before.....so I can't see how anyone can defend group A.

Chagaev might have been undefeated but his best wins were struggles over Valuev and Ruiz. The very same fighters you are discrediting in the beginning of your argument. His opponents either side of those great victories were Michael Sprott and Matt Skelton. Skelton actually did alright against him funnily enough.

Chambers wasn't undefeated. He'd already lost by the time he fought Wlad. Besides he hadn't clearly won a fight since beating Cisse Salif. I'm not even sure what's under-rated about Tony Thompson. He spent the entire fight with Wlad looking for a way out, but then somehow got applauded for his efforts and heart.

Oddly enough, Harrison will have been around 28 when he fought Peter in the amateurs. Maybe a year or so younger and he pretty much boxed circles round him. Granted they'd have to be very large circles, but still he managed it. Granted it was only the amateurs and it was a long time ago, but it supports the theory that Harrison could hang quite well with Peter....which imo he could, easily.