America is an illegal and racist country much like Israel

[amat]

Take the shame and move on. Don't try to bomb the rest of the world into the stone age.

...well I guess we can leave Afghanistan ooooh some 9 years ago

miles....I don't hate you or anything I just think you are looking at this in a flawed manner and that's below you, and the fact that you don't recognize it is just sad.

Should never have gone there in the first place. There were other ways to go after Al Qaeda and those ways should have been exhausted before any invasion of another country. That's why we are are there 9 years later fighting who exactly?

Likewise, I don't hate you. We usually oppose each other on issues such as this, but I see no harm in pointing out the similarities in how supposedly superior cultures are allowed to steal the land of indigenous populations. Or even bomb others without due cause.

Yeah who are we fighting? Al Qaeda and the taliban. Ohh but my guess is you think we shouldn't be fighting the Taliban, correct? Yet the Taliban are a breed of pure evil (this isn't right wing media talking, this is the truth) that people like me and you can't even begin to comprehend. Heinous, heinous people who do awful things and live life completely backwards, yet since they weren't the ones who ran the planes into the building, I guess we have no business interfering with their way of business.

But let me guess, we played a huge hand into putting them into power, that was going to be your next argument right? Why does that matter though? We have put evil people into power before and had to remove them, the Taliban need to be eradicated. This is a simple fact. I believe this with all of my heart, there is no other way to go about dealing with them.

Iraq is a cluster fuck, I know this. Our military planning going into Afghanistan kind of sucked. That's a bureaucracy problem, we are not the bad guys in Afghanistan. Iraq is more murky, we were WRONG to go in there and because of that we have the blood of a country's civil war on our hands. Still, we aren't the only bad guys their either and if you truly believe we are then you are simply detached from reality. I guess you aren't fully to blame as what you are reading is from anti-Imperialists who are actually just anti-Americans and people who have likely never stepped foot in Iraq or Afghanistan in their lives. It's made clear by your posts too.

[Gandalf]

Take the shame and move on. Don't try to bomb the rest of the world into the stone age.

...well I guess we can leave Afghanistan ooooh some 9 years ago

miles....I don't hate you or anything I just think you are looking at this in a flawed manner and that's below you, and the fact that you don't recognize it is just sad.

Should never have gone there in the first place. There were other ways to go after Al Qaeda and those ways should have been exhausted before any invasion of another country. That's why we are are there 9 years later fighting who exactly?

Likewise, I don't hate you. We usually oppose each other on issues such as this, but I see no harm in pointing out the similarities in how supposedly superior cultures are allowed to steal the land of indigenous populations. Or even bomb others without due cause.

Yeah who are we fighting? Al Qaeda and the taliban. Ohh but my guess is you think we shouldn't be fighting the Taliban, correct? Yet the Taliban are a breed of pure evil (this isn't right wing media talking, this is the truth) that people like me and you can't even begin to comprehend. Heinous, heinous people who do awful things and live life completely backwards, yet since they weren't the ones who ran the planes into the building, I guess we have no business interfering with their way of business.

But let me guess, we played a huge hand into putting them into power, that was going to be your next argument right? Why does that matter though? We have put evil people into power before and had to remove them, the Taliban need to be eradicated. This is a simple fact. I believe this with all of my heart, there is no other way to go about dealing with them.

Iraq is a cluster fuck, I know this. Our military planning going into Afghanistan kind of sucked. That's a bureaucracy problem, we are not the bad guys in Afghanistan. Iraq is more murky, we were WRONG to go in there and because of that we have the blood of a country's civil war on our hands. Still, we aren't the only bad guys their either and if you truly believe we are then you are simply detached from reality. I guess you aren't fully to blame as what you are reading is from anti-Imperialists who are actually just anti-Americans and people who have likely never stepped foot in Iraq or Afghanistan in their lives. It's made clear by your posts too.

Of the two wars I do happen to think that Afghanistan has some kind of jusification. However, diving in there as soon as the twin towers hit the floor was rash and foolish. Whence why we are still there. We didn't know the region and miscalculated what we were dealing with. I'm with you in arguing that the Taliban is a nasty piece of work and their mindsets are postively medieval. But those that caused 9-11 were primarily from allies such as Saudi Arabia. The neo-cons were itching to go to war any way they could because war for them means money. And off to war they went. Why not invade a nasty country like Saudi Arabia instead and hold them responsible for 9-11? Hell, why not invade Germany too?

Yes, America has put evil leaders into power and they have removed many more. However, this doesn't escape the fact that the US has no right to be backing military coups against sovereign governments or to be forcing their economic agenda the world over. How many times has the US government tried to assasinate Castro over the years? The American elite is absolutely bat shit crazy in its rigid determination to impose its will on the world. They will resort to any means possible to make sure resistance is futile. We have seen it time and time again. 9-11 was terrible, but let's look at the reasons why someone would want to do that. It is nothing to do with being jealous of the freedoms granted to US citizens and everything to do with years of resentment at measures imposed on individuals the world over. Evil breeds yet more evil. And in fighting the so called 'war on terror' evil is indeed breeding ever more evil. It's a futile quest and the elite know full well that it has no meaning.

Iraq was/is a clusterfuck. The reasons for war were a blatant lie. The way the media approached it was retarded and irresponsible. The whole war was about expanding the interests of private corporations in the military industrial complex and maintaining a grip on Iraqi oil. The war was not only morally wrong, but illegal. Going by the rules applied at Nuremburg, Bush and Blair should be tried as war criminals. Once again evil breeds evil and I'm sure that as a consequence a lot more people will be wishing for nasty things to happen to America and the UK. You make your own bed as they say. For sure it isn't only America, Britain likes to tag along on these little adventures too.

I don't know what you mean about the people I read being anti American. Klein is certainly very critical of the US, but I don't neccessarily regard that as anti-American. What's she supposed to say? That US foreign policy has spread happiness and joy around the world? Obviously it hasn't. And if you would take the time to read her book 'The shock doctrine' you will see that she has spent time in most of the places where America has spread its ugly tentacles and interviewed a lot of people who suffered during oppressive regimes or witnessed coups and so on. It's a great book and well worth a read. I certainly learned quite a bit. Chomsky is the other one that I read and listen to a lot. Again he is critical of America, but I don't regard him as anti-American. He is usually bang on the money with his observations and backs it all up with evidence.

Just face it, the American elite are a bunch of corrupt shits who are now even turning on their own population. I'm definitely against that kind of behaviour. Otherwise, I regard fellow Americans here as decent chaps, but I see no great problem with pointing out the evil and despotic nature of the corporate and political elites or that the country was built on genocide.