Who would like George Bush tried for War crimes?

[Nameless]

I think the term lied is thrown around a little loosely. In retrospect obviously the Iraq invasion was a complete farce. Saddam didn't have WMD, didn't pose a serious security risk to the US and was largely contained. I think Bush and his advisors clearly created an enviroment that fostered finding intelligence to justify the invasion rather than decide if it was necessary or warranted at all. I know to some of you this is purely splitting hairs. I just don't believe that Powell gets up in front of the UN and knowingly tells them bold faced lies. I think if Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz etc knew he was misrepresenting the facts it would have come out by now. Saddam revealed during his debriefings that he did destroy or get rid of all of the WMD after the Gulf War but needed his military and nation at large to believe he had them to maintain power and further more needed the Arab nations to believe to keep his rep. Is it any less tragic the outcome being due to over zealous incompetence rather than malicious deceit? Not really...but since speculating should Bush be tried for war crimes is on par to speculating if Tyson would beat Ali it really doesn't matter

Wolfowitz stated personally that since the very beginning, they knew that there was no WMD but that they did need bureaucratic reasons to invade Iraq and to push Saddam. Also, never forget that they created forged papers to support that Saddam had uranium. and they punished Joseph Wilson by leaking the name of his wife for stating that such trade never happened. They knew, Powell knew and probably disagree to say what he said but it was an order and he had no choice to tell what he got told to do.

Can you site a source of Wolfowitz stating that?

Sure: USATODAY.com - Wolfowitz comments revive doubts over Iraq's WMD

Iraq: No WMD, No Reason for War

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/30/se.08.html

I had some more complete but can't find them actually.

[VictorCharlie]

I think the term lied is thrown around a little loosely. In retrospect obviously the Iraq invasion was a complete farce. Saddam didn't have WMD, didn't pose a serious security risk to the US and was largely contained. I think Bush and his advisors clearly created an enviroment that fostered finding intelligence to justify the invasion rather than decide if it was necessary or warranted at all. I know to some of you this is purely splitting hairs. I just don't believe that Powell gets up in front of the UN and knowingly tells them bold faced lies. I think if Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz etc knew he was misrepresenting the facts it would have come out by now. Saddam revealed during his debriefings that he did destroy or get rid of all of the WMD after the Gulf War but needed his military and nation at large to believe he had them to maintain power and further more needed the Arab nations to believe to keep his rep. Is it any less tragic the outcome being due to over zealous incompetence rather than malicious deceit? Not really...but since speculating should Bush be tried for war crimes is on par to speculating if Tyson would beat Ali it really doesn't matter

Wolfowitz stated personally that since the very beginning, they knew that there was no WMD but that they did need bureaucratic reasons to invade Iraq and to push Saddam. Also, never forget that they created forged papers to support that Saddam had uranium. and they punished Joseph Wilson by leaking the name of his wife for stating that such trade never happened. They knew, Powell knew and probably disagree to say what he said but it was an order and he had no choice to tell what he got told to do.

Can you site a source of Wolfowitz stating that?

Sure: USATODAY.com - Wolfowitz comments revive doubts over Iraq's WMD

Iraq: No WMD, No Reason for War

CNN.com - Transcripts

I had some more complete but can't find them actually.

No where in those articles does Wolfowitz state that they knew there were no WMD

"For bureaucratic reasons we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on." does not equate to knowing all along that there were no WMDs. He pretty clearly makes the point that they would have invaded regardless of WMD but that it was still an issue or at least an alleged issue.

[Nameless]

I think the term lied is thrown around a little loosely. In retrospect obviously the Iraq invasion was a complete farce. Saddam didn't have WMD, didn't pose a serious security risk to the US and was largely contained. I think Bush and his advisors clearly created an enviroment that fostered finding intelligence to justify the invasion rather than decide if it was necessary or warranted at all. I know to some of you this is purely splitting hairs. I just don't believe that Powell gets up in front of the UN and knowingly tells them bold faced lies. I think if Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz etc knew he was misrepresenting the facts it would have come out by now. Saddam revealed during his debriefings that he did destroy or get rid of all of the WMD after the Gulf War but needed his military and nation at large to believe he had them to maintain power and further more needed the Arab nations to believe to keep his rep. Is it any less tragic the outcome being due to over zealous incompetence rather than malicious deceit? Not really...but since speculating should Bush be tried for war crimes is on par to speculating if Tyson would beat Ali it really doesn't matter

Wolfowitz stated personally that since the very beginning, they knew that there was no WMD but that they did need bureaucratic reasons to invade Iraq and to push Saddam. Also, never forget that they created forged papers to support that Saddam had uranium. and they punished Joseph Wilson by leaking the name of his wife for stating that such trade never happened. They knew, Powell knew and probably disagree to say what he said but it was an order and he had no choice to tell what he got told to do.

Can you site a source of Wolfowitz stating that?

Sure: USATODAY.com - Wolfowitz comments revive doubts over Iraq's WMD

Iraq: No WMD, No Reason for War

CNN.com - Transcripts

I had some more complete but can't find them actually.

No where in those articles does Wolfowitz state that they knew there were no WMD

"For bureaucratic reasons we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on." does not equate to knowing all along that there were no WMDs. He pretty clearly makes the point that they would have invaded regardless of WMD but that it was still an issue or at least an alleged issue.

Well, if the reason evoked to invade Iraq was the WMD that Saddam was about to unleash on America and its allies and that they knew they didn't exist (once again, brought by the forged documents about the bogus Uranium deal among other things), doesn't it mean that they knew very well it was bogus and that they just wanted to attack Iraq for their very own agenda? IMO, it is exactly what it means.

Just to add to the whole, Hans von Sponek, Denis Haliday, the responsible for Iraq inspection of WMD stated clearly that it was impossible that Saddam had any WMD, same call was made by Joseph Wilson which Bush administration did charge to re-view the whole uranium thing and who was pressurized into saying that there was something, he refused and they retaliated by burning his wife, Valerie Platte, CIA agent. David Key, chief inspector of the American army reported the same thing but Bush and his minions keep rolling the drums claiming they were here and that they were just yet to be discovered. Even the French and German secret services claimed at the time that there were no evidences, it was just all a set up to their program to reshape the Middle East under the terms that do suit them.

[VictorCharlie]

Here is your quote "Wolfowitz stated personally that since the very beginning, they knew that there was no WMD"

None of those articles support this statement. If your interpretation of what he said and the actions of the administration is that they always knew there were no WMDs then fine but state it that way.

Give me some sources on the forged uranium documents b/c I'm not familiar with that story line. Never the less though Saddam at one point definitely had WMD b/c he gassed his own people with them. Not having uranium is kind of a red herring.

[Nameless]

Here is your quote "Wolfowitz stated personally that since the very beginning, they knew that there was no WMD"

None of those articles support this statement. If your interpretation of what he said and the actions of the administration is that they always knew there were no WMDs then fine but state it that way.

Give me some sources on the forged uranium documents b/c I'm not familiar with that story line. Never the less though Saddam at one point definitely had WMD b/c he gassed his own people with them. Not having uranium is kind of a red herring.

Saddam had chemical stuff... but nothing after the first gulf war, Von Sponeck and Denis H, the UN responsible for the cleaning and supervising stated clearly that there was nothing remaining, even the English secret services stated so and so did the CIA but Douglas Feith, Wolfowitz et cie even used their "personal intelligence services with other informations" in order to dicredit the CIA and to justify the "dangers" related to Iraq.

As for Wolfowitz, his statements clearly says it all, you have to understand it the other way: "For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on." First and foremost, they wanted to attack Iraq BUT they had to find a reason everybody had to agree on. It was the WMD. Despite the MI6, the CIA, the UN inspectors opinion on the fact that there was nothing, they pushed the issue. They even created their very own "information agency" in order to control the proofs they would use to go to war and to undermine the CIA and the other organizations that stated there was absolutely no WMD Office of Special Plans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Among many elements, they used the bogus uranium "sheet" to prove their facts, sheet that has been proven false after a mere investigation.

Everything there is to be known on the uranium gate: Wapedia - Wiki: Niger uranium forgeries Google also Joseph Wilson Valerie Plame, you'll find all the other details.

Joseph Wilson whu used in favor of the first Gulf War and who got punished for telling what he thought was right:

What I Didn't Find in Africa