Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...

[Dizaster]

Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

i promise you pal, its not easily achieved

like i said in the pac v marg thread, to gain anything more than a couple to 5 maybe pounds of lean muscle a year is a fantastic achievement, anymore is almost unheard of

bodybuilders generally dont build lean muscle after they are 23 years old ish

they bulk and cut, so they gain more than a couple of pounds of muscle in a year, andything upto 10 or 15 pounds but they put on masses of fat as well during a bulk, then they diet and cut the fat

you check out pics of famous bodybuilders off season

Mate, once again you're talking absolute bollocks.

The comment i have highlighted is so stupid, it deserves a special mention. Testosterone levels reach a peak around the mid 20's. After that, they start to slowly decline. That is why it is harder for a person to add muscle mass as they get older. However, to say people don't build lean muscle once they're about 23 is absolute tosh.

You don't need to promise me anything. I suggest you take the time to read through a Sport's Nutrition textbook, or read the carbohydrate section of the Sport's Nutrition Bible, which is authored by me, in the training section of this very site.

Getting back to Pacquiao. His natural weight, or his weigh-in weight has increased by around 15lbs, in 4 years. Once again, that isn't unrealistic for an athlete who is consuming 8,000 cals per day. It's also worth mentioning that the higher he goes up in weight, the less he has to deplete himself before the weigh-in. So a Pacquiao weighing at 129 isn't really a true reflection of his actual weight because he will have more han likely have been dehydrated, wheras for a fight at Welterweight, he can actually afford to be hydrated and he can afford for his muscle glycogen stores to be close to being fully loaded. This in itself will account for around 6 or 7lbs.

Like i said, he's done nothing that's even remotely out of the ordinary here.

But please, carry on with your cliched nonsense

I will second and stand 100% by that.... And we're not talking about the average Westener gym junkie hang around in gyms and online forums..
This is a Philippine athlete. The Philippine physique and genetics is already much better at keeping off the fat.. So he won't be as likely to put on the pounds of fat that some people are expecting of him in the off season or when he's trying to gain weight in any forum (bulk then cut)....
And again, this is not the average Western Gym/forum junkie,,,, this is one of the fittest peak athletes on the planet. A person who would work 10 times harder than anyone you would find on a muscle forum... He's also got expert nutritionists who work with nutrition of sports people all day every day.. That's what they get paid for... They are not people who've read articles or got some experience of themselves and then tell everyone how it is.....

As Ono said, for Pac to get down to the lower weights, that would have taken a LOT of work... Moving up less so.... He would be working just as hard in the gym, except they would have upped his calories and proteins etc to bring him up to the higher weights and maintain his muscle and ripped look...

go to weightgaintips.com to see what is possible in regards to lean muscle with the appropriate workout and diet.... And that of course doesn't represent everyone, but if someone is in the gym for a year and seriously only puts on a good 5 pounds of muscle mass in a year, then they are doing something seriously fucking wrong... Overtraining, shit diet, shit workout (high reps/low weight)... So to say it's only realistic to put on 5 pounds of muscle mass a year is just silly...

And we are talking about Manny Pacquaio, who has been known to work as hard as any boxer in history...

Nothing of his physique or gains gives me any suspicion what so ever....

[erics44]

go to weightgaintips.com to see what is possible in regards to lean muscle with the appropriate workout and diet.... And that of course doesn't represent everyone, but if someone is in the gym for a year and seriously only puts on a good 5 pounds of muscle mass in a year, then they are doing something seriously fucking wrong... Overtraining, shit diet, shit workout (high reps/low weight)... So to say it's only realistic to put on 5 pounds of muscle mass a year is just silly...

putting on 5lbs of "lean" muscle in a year for someone over (for arguments sake lets say) 26 would be a very good achievement

by doing a bulk (adding fat too) it is very posible

if you are over 26, I challenge you to try and put on 2lbs of "lean" muscle in a year, that is without adding any fat, i bet you struggle

but dudes, you lot have obviously studied this more than me so you clearly know what you are talking about

just an aditional point, did ariza's journal thingy posted above come out after manny had refused the drugs test?

let me just point out at this point, i have never said manny has or hasnt put on any muscle, as ive said a few times in this thread my original point was to onos suggestion that it is easy to put on lean muscle at that rate