The Case Against Julio Cesar Chavez

[Chino]

1) his 100+ wins should NOT BE COMPARED to the records of other fighters, because he fought a bunch of tomato cans well into his 40-some fights

TitoFan,
Do boxers become Hall of Famers just because they have lots of wins in their resume? It takes more than that and JCC proved to have more than just wins. MilMascaras mentioned those accomplishments.

And before you or your homies chime in about JCC not having an amateur career... save it. We're not talking amateur careers here. We're talking about putting "W"s on a professional record. Whether or not you've had an amateur career should not come into the argument here. Why skew a professional record with a bunch of wins against nobodies? It's a pointless argument. You're wrong, and you know it

Let's say a young guy starts working in the New York Stock Exchange with no education higher than high school working with bunch of guys with not only many years of college preparation but also experience in the market. Wouldn't you raise an eyebrow for that young guy who's selling more and accomplishing so much than all the other guys with 2 or 3 times more experience?

Did JCC beat many nobodies? Sure, but now see his accomplishments. Of course he deserves HOF status.

Oh... I said two things. The other one is: 2) he's a jerk. A class-A, bonafide, 100% USDA jerk. Totally classless when he got whipped by Frankie Randall, and never giving any credit to anybody. AND... he's bringing Junior along the same way. He's the typical, over-bearing ex-fighter dad

There will be lots of reasons why you simply don't like him but that doesn't take away the fact that he has many admirable accomplishments in the ring. I dislike some boxers out there but that doesn't blind me from seeing their skills and accomplishments.

[TitoFan]

See my comments below.

1) his 100+ wins should NOT BE COMPARED to the records of other fighters, because he fought a bunch of tomato cans well into his 40-some fights

TitoFan,
Do boxers become Hall of Famers just because they have lots of wins in their resume? It takes more than that and JCC proved to have more than just wins. MilMascaras mentioned those accomplishments.

And for the umpteenth time... I haven't argued that JCC doesn't belong in the HOF... have I.
Just not on "god status".

And before you or your homies chime in about JCC not having an amateur career... save it. We're not talking amateur careers here. We're talking about putting "W"s on a professional record. Whether or not you've had an amateur career should not come into the argument here. Why skew a professional record with a bunch of wins against nobodies? It's a pointless argument. You're wrong, and you know it

Let's say a young guy starts working in the New York Stock Exchange with no education higher than high school working with bunch of guys with not only many years of college preparation but also experience in the market. Wouldn't you raise an eyebrow for that young guy who's selling more and accomplishing so much than all the other guys with 2 or 3 times more experience?


Clever, but inappropriate. You can't compare a boxer fighting tomato cans and padding his professional record to a Wall Street upstart with a knack for picking stocks. It doesn't work that way, and comes across as a gigantic reach. But nice try.Did JCC beat many nobodies? Sure, but now see his accomplishments. Of course he deserves HOF status.

Oh... I said two things. The other one is: 2) he's a jerk. A class-A, bonafide, 100% USDA jerk. Totally classless when he got whipped by Frankie Randall, and never giving any credit to anybody. AND... he's bringing Junior along the same way. He's the typical, over-bearing ex-fighter dad

There will be lots of reasons why you simply don't like him but that doesn't take away the fact that he has many admirable accomplishments in the ring. I dislike some boxers out there but that doesn't blind me from seeing their skills and accomplishments.

Again, you fail to see the point. I'm not denying his accomplishments. I'm... oh what's the point? We're just going to keep going round and round. If you can't see that JCC's 100+ wins can't and shouldn't be compared by mere numbers to other HOF fighters because JCC padded his record with over 40 patsies... there's nothing I can say that's gonna change that.

I WILL give you credit for arguing a bit more sensibly than in previous years, tho.

[milmascaras1]

titofan,

your outrageous denial of chavez' accomplishments borders on lunacy! and for the millionth time, you keep harping about chavez' 40 bums. did you or did you not know that most of the all-time greats also had their big share of bums as well? why are you only targeting chavez' record? look at some of the all-time greats, like joe louis, henry armstrong, rocky marciano, and many, many others...these guys built part of their impressive records on alot of bums with losing records.

here is what i found out of chavez' record, after he won his first world title, he fought one fighter with a losing record. this is far, far less than many of the great fighters of yesteryear. but you seem to be silent on this, i wonder why?

look, you want the truth? i'll give you the god damned truth, the truth of the matter is this, the only reason why you tend to belittle chavez' accomplishments is because he has accomplished more than all your PR champions in history! i'm sorry to tell you the truth but it just had to be said, right here, right now.

i mean the envy you, morales and other PR's have for chavez is just really sad.

[ElTerribleMorales]

titofan,

your outrageous denial of chavez' accomplishments borders on lunacy! and for the millionth time, you keep harping about chavez' 40 bums. did you or did you not know that most of the all-time greats also had their big share of bums as well? why are you only targeting chavez' record? look at some of the all-time greats, like joe louis, henry armstrong, rocky marciano, and many, many others...these guys built part of their impressive records on alot of bums with losing records.

here is what i found out of chavez' record, after he won his first world title, he fought one fighter with a losing record. this is far, far less than many of the great fighters of yesteryear. but you seem to be silent on this, i wonder why?

look, you want the truth? i'll give you the god damned truth, the truth of the matter is this, the only reason why you tend to belittle chavez' accomplishments is because he has accomplished more than all your PR champions in history! i'm sorry to tell you the truth but it just had to be said, right here, right now.

i mean the envy you, morales and other PR's have for chavez is just really sad.

the way you can't get PR out your mouth says it all, i know you wish you were a part of this great island but well you're not, Titofan and me haven't disputed any of Chavez SR's accomplishments, he's a sure fire HOF'er, but just as OTHER BIGGER NAME FIGHTERS tend to be overrated well Chavez as well is overrated a hell of a lot of times

do i agree with the original post in this thread? no, using that type of deducing you can make ANY GREAT fighter look like shit when all the FACTS prove otherwise

just cause someone does guzzle down YOUR favorite fighters balls doesn't mean that their envious, but you get pissy and have a little bitch fit everytime someone doesn't agree with you, hell the whole Chavez JR thread is proof of that, Jr is utter shit and will only reach B level success, that's MY OPINION, and it's not due to envy it's because the pussy doesn't step it up at all, he fought one of the crappiest Middleweight's in the last 10 yrs (when you can't get by an ancient Campas well you know you're crap), and now he's fighting one of the smallest fighters to come out of The Pretender (and the same dude who was stomped out by Cotto in 5, hell he was even dropped by jabs), you bitch about Donaire always fighting smaller guys, yet you're ok with Chavez Jr doing the same exact thing, actually hold that, Donaire's at least fighting decent guys in Maldonado and Concepcion, unlike Chavez Jr, both guys need to pick it up but at least one guy is in talks of fighting with one of the best Bantams in the world (Montiel) and the other is fighting a bum (Gomez), you're the most biased poster on here who can never see past a fucking flag

[Violent Demise]

titofan,

your outrageous denial of chavez' accomplishments borders on lunacy! and for the millionth time, you keep harping about chavez' 40 bums. did you or did you not know that most of the all-time greats also had their big share of bums as well? why are you only targeting chavez' record? look at some of the all-time greats, like joe louis, henry armstrong, rocky marciano, and many, many others...these guys built part of their impressive records on alot of bums with losing records.

here is what i found out of chavez' record, after he won his first world title, he fought one fighter with a losing record. this is far, far less than many of the great fighters of yesteryear. but you seem to be silent on this, i wonder why?

look, you want the truth? i'll give you the god damned truth, the truth of the matter is this, the only reason why you tend to belittle chavez' accomplishments is because he has accomplished more than all your PR champions in history! i'm sorry to tell you the truth but it just had to be said, right here, right now.

i mean the envy you, morales and other PR's have for chavez is just really sad.

the way you can't get PR out your mouth says it all, i know you wish you were a part of this great island but well you're not, Titofan and me haven't disputed any of Chavez SR's accomplishments, he's a sure fire HOF'er, but just as OTHER BIGGER NAME FIGHTERS tend to be overrated well Chavez as well is overrated a hell of a lot of times

do i agree with the original post in this thread? no, using that type of deducing you can make ANY GREAT fighter look like shit when all the FACTS prove otherwise

just cause someone does guzzle down YOUR favorite fighters balls doesn't mean that their envious, but you get pissy and have a little bitch fit everytime someone doesn't agree with you, hell the whole Chavez JR thread is proof of that, Jr is utter shit and will only reach B level success, that's MY OPINION, and it's not due to envy it's because the pussy doesn't step it up at all, he fought one of the crappiest Middleweight's in the last 10 yrs (when you can't get by an ancient Campas well you know you're crap), and now he's fighting one of the smallest fighters to come out of The Pretender (and the same dude who was stomped out by Cotto in 5, hell he was even dropped by jabs), you bitch about Donaire always fighting smaller guys, yet you're ok with Chavez Jr doing the same exact thing, actually hold that, Donaire's at least fighting decent guys in Maldonado and Concepcion, unlike Chavez Jr, both guys need to pick it up but at least one guy is in talks of fighting with one of the best Bantams in the world (Montiel) and the other is fighting a bum (Gomez), you're the most biased poster on here who can never see past a fucking flag

Donaire had a good amateur career. Chavez Jr didn't. Not to mention Donaire is foolishly place on some p4p lists. More is expected of him as he's suppose to be justifying that standing. He hasn't even come close to doing that. Bad comparison/example

[ElTerribleMorales]

titofan,

your outrageous denial of chavez' accomplishments borders on lunacy! and for the millionth time, you keep harping about chavez' 40 bums. did you or did you not know that most of the all-time greats also had their big share of bums as well? why are you only targeting chavez' record? look at some of the all-time greats, like joe louis, henry armstrong, rocky marciano, and many, many others...these guys built part of their impressive records on alot of bums with losing records.

here is what i found out of chavez' record, after he won his first world title, he fought one fighter with a losing record. this is far, far less than many of the great fighters of yesteryear. but you seem to be silent on this, i wonder why?

look, you want the truth? i'll give you the god damned truth, the truth of the matter is this, the only reason why you tend to belittle chavez' accomplishments is because he has accomplished more than all your PR champions in history! i'm sorry to tell you the truth but it just had to be said, right here, right now.

i mean the envy you, morales and other PR's have for chavez is just really sad.

the way you can't get PR out your mouth says it all, i know you wish you were a part of this great island but well you're not, Titofan and me haven't disputed any of Chavez SR's accomplishments, he's a sure fire HOF'er, but just as OTHER BIGGER NAME FIGHTERS tend to be overrated well Chavez as well is overrated a hell of a lot of times

do i agree with the original post in this thread? no, using that type of deducing you can make ANY GREAT fighter look like shit when all the FACTS prove otherwise

just cause someone does guzzle down YOUR favorite fighters balls doesn't mean that their envious, but you get pissy and have a little bitch fit everytime someone doesn't agree with you, hell the whole Chavez JR thread is proof of that, Jr is utter shit and will only reach B level success, that's MY OPINION, and it's not due to envy it's because the pussy doesn't step it up at all, he fought one of the crappiest Middleweight's in the last 10 yrs (when you can't get by an ancient Campas well you know you're crap), and now he's fighting one of the smallest fighters to come out of The Pretender (and the same dude who was stomped out by Cotto in 5, hell he was even dropped by jabs), you bitch about Donaire always fighting smaller guys, yet you're ok with Chavez Jr doing the same exact thing, actually hold that, Donaire's at least fighting decent guys in Maldonado and Concepcion, unlike Chavez Jr, both guys need to pick it up but at least one guy is in talks of fighting with one of the best Bantams in the world (Montiel) and the other is fighting a bum (Gomez), you're the most biased poster on here who can never see past a fucking flag

Donaire had a good amateur career. Chavez Jr didn't. Not to mention Donaire is foolishly place on some p4p lists. More is expected of him as he's suppose to be justifying that standing. He hasn't even come close to doing that. Bad comparison/example

i agree with you completely, Donaire shouldn't be on the p4p list, his biggest win was against Darchinyan when Darchinyan himself didn't have the biggest wins of his career, but it's kinda ridiculous to keep using lack of amateur experience as an excuse for a guy to keep fighting the same level of tomato cans (granted that Chavez Jr has now jumped from fighting C Level fighters to B- Level fighters)

[Violent Demise]

titofan,

your outrageous denial of chavez' accomplishments borders on lunacy! and for the millionth time, you keep harping about chavez' 40 bums. did you or did you not know that most of the all-time greats also had their big share of bums as well? why are you only targeting chavez' record? look at some of the all-time greats, like joe louis, henry armstrong, rocky marciano, and many, many others...these guys built part of their impressive records on alot of bums with losing records.

here is what i found out of chavez' record, after he won his first world title, he fought one fighter with a losing record. this is far, far less than many of the great fighters of yesteryear. but you seem to be silent on this, i wonder why?

look, you want the truth? i'll give you the god damned truth, the truth of the matter is this, the only reason why you tend to belittle chavez' accomplishments is because he has accomplished more than all your PR champions in history! i'm sorry to tell you the truth but it just had to be said, right here, right now.

i mean the envy you, morales and other PR's have for chavez is just really sad.

the way you can't get PR out your mouth says it all, i know you wish you were a part of this great island but well you're not, Titofan and me haven't disputed any of Chavez SR's accomplishments, he's a sure fire HOF'er, but just as OTHER BIGGER NAME FIGHTERS tend to be overrated well Chavez as well is overrated a hell of a lot of times

do i agree with the original post in this thread? no, using that type of deducing you can make ANY GREAT fighter look like shit when all the FACTS prove otherwise

just cause someone does guzzle down YOUR favorite fighters balls doesn't mean that their envious, but you get pissy and have a little bitch fit everytime someone doesn't agree with you, hell the whole Chavez JR thread is proof of that, Jr is utter shit and will only reach B level success, that's MY OPINION, and it's not due to envy it's because the pussy doesn't step it up at all, he fought one of the crappiest Middleweight's in the last 10 yrs (when you can't get by an ancient Campas well you know you're crap), and now he's fighting one of the smallest fighters to come out of The Pretender (and the same dude who was stomped out by Cotto in 5, hell he was even dropped by jabs), you bitch about Donaire always fighting smaller guys, yet you're ok with Chavez Jr doing the same exact thing, actually hold that, Donaire's at least fighting decent guys in Maldonado and Concepcion, unlike Chavez Jr, both guys need to pick it up but at least one guy is in talks of fighting with one of the best Bantams in the world (Montiel) and the other is fighting a bum (Gomez), you're the most biased poster on here who can never see past a fucking flag

Donaire had a good amateur career. Chavez Jr didn't. Not to mention Donaire is foolishly place on some p4p lists. More is expected of him as he's suppose to be justifying that standing. He hasn't even come close to doing that. Bad comparison/example

i agree with you completely, Donaire shouldn't be on the p4p list, his biggest win was against Darchinyan when Darchinyan himself didn't have the biggest wins of his career, but it's kinda ridiculous to keep using lack of amateur experience as an excuse for a guy to keep fighting the same level of tomato cans (granted that Chavez Jr has now jumped from fighting C Level fighters to B- Level fighters)

On the job training is all it was. You don't like hearing about it cuz it don't suit you. But think about it. Your son and your nephew both turn pro. Your son never fought as an amateur. Your nephew on the other hand had over 100 amateur fights in different places in the world. The 2 opponents are 16-3 and 2-23. You gonna put your son in with the 16-3 fighter? No your not. Your nephew is more experience and better equipped to fight him. Your son gets the 2-23 fighter. Cuz even though there both are turning pro at the same time. There not equipped the same. You can't match them up the same.