The Case Against Julio Cesar Chavez

[milmascaras1]

morales,

where did i make a big deal about chavez having over 100 wins? i might has put it out there to show his overall career record, but i didn't make a great deal about it.

what i did do was show that before his first loss at 89-0-1, he had been a world champion for over nine years. he already had 23 successful world title defenses. how many people in history can claim this? what i did say was he holds the all-time record of 27 successful title defenses, most title fights (37), didn't lose until his 15th year as a pro, most title defenses at jr. welter (16).

and yet you chavez haters write him off as if he was some kind of overrated fighter.

again, name me any fighter alive today (active or retired), who can claim these accomplishments!

[ElTerribleMorales]

morales,

where did i make a big deal about chavez having over 100 wins? i might has put it out there to show his overall career record, but i didn't make a great deal about it.

what i did do was show that before his first loss at 89-0-1, he had been a world champion for over nine years. he already had 23 successful world title defenses. how many people in history can claim this? what i did say was he holds the all-time record of 27 successful title defenses, most title fights (37), didn't lose until his 15th year as a pro, most title defenses at jr. welter (16).

and yet you chavez haters write him off as if he was some kind of overrated fighter.

again, name me any fighter alive today (active or retired), who can claim these accomplishments!

so now a person is a "hater" when they state that a certain fighter is overrated....spoken like a true fanboy

[milmascaras1]

morales,

hey, i'm still waiting for you to give me the name(s) of fighters alive today who have done what chavez has done! tick-tock, tick-tock etc...

[Chino]

Let's forget the more than 100 fights, forget the fact he fought some guys who were not well-known, forget the fact that he is friendly nice guy or a complete jerk, etc. He is a Hall of Famer for the admirable accomplishments that have already been mentioned here. Don't know what is left to debate.

[TitoFan]

Oh... I said two things. The other one is: 2) he's a jerk. A class-A, bonafide, 100% USDA jerk. Totally classless when he got whipped by Frankie Randall, and never giving any credit to anybody. AND... he's bringing Junior along the same way. He's the typical, over-bearing ex-fighter dad.

Those are my points, and nothing your stats say can change that.

Your hypocrisy is hilarious. Yes Chavez was all that you say. While I don't mind that in a fighter, you wanna dislike him for that, that's fine. You have that right. What's funny is you hold that against Chavez but not Duran. Duran is an ATG fighter. As well as an ATG jerk. I mean the guy wasn't just a sore loser. He was sore winner. Watch the lead up as well as the end of Duran-Leonard 1 for Duran's classy ways.

C'mon VD... you know better than that. When did I say Duran was a classy guy? Matter of fact, I hated his reaction to Sugar Ray after their first fight, and was overjoyed when Hearns savagely knocked him out. But there's a subtle difference between Duran and Chavez. Duran was just a wild animal, working himself into a hatred of any opponent they put in front of him, and doing his best to pummel them into a pulp. Although I don't excuse his reaction after the 1st Leonard fight, it could be said he was just too worked up when the final bell sounded to behave like a sportsman.

Chavez... on the other hand, always seemed to me to be calculatingly hypocritical and too much into his precious little "0", as well as his march toward 100 wins. He discredited his opponents, and... even after he started fighting world class opposition, managed to sprinkle in a few "debutantes" and palookas with losing records. And while I know every great fighter takes a breather every now and then, they're usually not as blatant about it as Chavez apparently was.

What I still don't get is this backlash about my dislike for the guy and his bloated record. Granted... I've never said he doesn't belong in the HOF or that he isn't an all-time great fighter. Just that his record was bloated, that's all. And the "lack of amateur experience" argument just doesn't cut it. Because while he's entitled to a learning curve, like all other fighters, the bums he was beating up on should not have counted on his professional record... simple as that.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Let's forget the more than 100 fights, forget the fact he fought some guys who were not well-known, forget the fact that he is friendly nice guy or a complete jerk, etc. He is a Hall of Famer for the admirable accomplishments that have already been mentioned here. Don't know what is left to debate.

well it's easy, milmascaras is in this thread, so he's not gonna be happy until everyone volunteers to teabag Chavez's nuts as he does