De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[Hornfinger]

i liked the quote used by yb the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-hopkins at 156?

Chavez-whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-marinez at 158? Hardly a moan.

But with pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
And if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

Btw no one forced oscar to fight manny, it was oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the a side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with manny.

in those fights listed how many of the guys coming down to the weight lost?

i think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them i don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights i saw. You presumably disagree?

my point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, i think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. That can't be said for the pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up

you think the out come of hagler vs leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?

the result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If cotto had beat pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what williams did with martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.

In my opinion, the only fight pacquiao had where i thought they maybe did that for that reason was the cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought hatton at hatton's natural weight - 140, mayweather made hatton come up to 147. Pac met odlh at a middle point, and don't forget, odlh was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.

of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.

I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the facts speak for themselves.

what you are saying is that if williams had beat martinez, you would given him a ton of crap like you are doing now, but because he lost, you're giving him a free pass?

answer this question....


Did martinez look like a zombie shadow of a man in the ring?

[Rantcatrat]

i liked the quote used by yb the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-hopkins at 156?

Chavez-whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-marinez at 158? Hardly a moan.

But with pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
And if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

Btw no one forced oscar to fight manny, it was oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the a side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with manny.

in those fights listed how many of the guys coming down to the weight lost?

i think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them i don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights i saw. You presumably disagree?

my point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, i think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. That can't be said for the pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up

you think the out come of hagler vs leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?

the result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If cotto had beat pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what williams did with martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.

In my opinion, the only fight pacquiao had where i thought they maybe did that for that reason was the cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought hatton at hatton's natural weight - 140, mayweather made hatton come up to 147. Pac met odlh at a middle point, and don't forget, odlh was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.

of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.

I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the facts speak for themselves.

what you are saying is that if williams had beat martinez, you would given him a ton of crap like you are doing now, but because he lost, you're giving him a free pass?

answer this question....


Did martinez look like a zombie shadow of a man in the ring?

You didn't answer my question.

My point was that varying the weight from the weight class (e.g. 145 from 147 or 158 from 160) to gain an advantage is the actual problem. Whether the advantage pays off is really besides the point.

What you are saying is that is that if Martinez had looked gaunt and out-of-it, you would have given Williams crap for doing it?

To answer your question, I was there and I didn't think Martinez looked like a Zombie shadow of a man, but I thought it was low for Williams to make him come down in weight either way, and in a sense, he got his just desert.

[Hornfinger]

i liked the quote used by yb the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-hopkins at 156?

Chavez-whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-marinez at 158? Hardly a moan.

But with pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
And if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

Btw no one forced oscar to fight manny, it was oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the a side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with manny.

in those fights listed how many of the guys coming down to the weight lost?

i think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them i don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights i saw. You presumably disagree?

my point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, i think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. That can't be said for the pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up

you think the out come of hagler vs leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?

the result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If cotto had beat pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what williams did with martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.

In my opinion, the only fight pacquiao had where i thought they maybe did that for that reason was the cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought hatton at hatton's natural weight - 140, mayweather made hatton come up to 147. Pac met odlh at a middle point, and don't forget, odlh was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.

of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.

I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the facts speak for themselves.

what you are saying is that if williams had beat martinez, you would given him a ton of crap like you are doing now, but because he lost, you're giving him a free pass?

answer this question....


Did martinez look like a zombie shadow of a man in the ring?

You didn't answer my question.

My point was that varying the weight from the weight class (e.g. 145 from 147 or 158 from 160) to gain an advantage is the actual problem. Whether the advantage pays off is really besides the point.

What you are saying is that is that if Martinez had looked gaunt and out-of-it, you would have given Williams crap for doing it?

To answer your question, I was there and I didn't think Martinez looked like a Zombie shadow of a man, but I thought it was low for Williams to make him come down in weight either way, and in a sense, he got his just desert.

Martinez didn't look like a zombie and won the fight. Was he weight drained? well if he was he didn't show it. The complete opposite of pacs recent opponants.

[arcanum26]

i liked the quote used by yb the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-hopkins at 156?

Chavez-whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-marinez at 158? Hardly a moan.

But with pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
And if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

Btw no one forced oscar to fight manny, it was oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the a side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with manny.

in those fights listed how many of the guys coming down to the weight lost?

i think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them i don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights i saw. You presumably disagree?

my point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, i think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. That can't be said for the pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up

you think the out come of hagler vs leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?

the result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If cotto had beat pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what williams did with martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.

In my opinion, the only fight pacquiao had where i thought they maybe did that for that reason was the cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought hatton at hatton's natural weight - 140, mayweather made hatton come up to 147. Pac met odlh at a middle point, and don't forget, odlh was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.

of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.

I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the facts speak for themselves.

what you are saying is that if williams had beat martinez, you would given him a ton of crap like you are doing now, but because he lost, you're giving him a free pass?

answer this question....


Did martinez look like a zombie shadow of a man in the ring?

You didn't answer my question.

My point was that varying the weight from the weight class (e.g. 145 from 147 or 158 from 160) to gain an advantage is the actual problem. Whether the advantage pays off is really besides the point.

What you are saying is that is that if Martinez had looked gaunt and out-of-it, you would have given Williams crap for doing it?

To answer your question, I was there and I didn't think Martinez looked like a Zombie shadow of a man, but I thought it was low for Williams to make him come down in weight either way, and in a sense, he got his just desert.

Martinez didn't look like a zombie and won the fight. Was he weight drained? well if he was he didn't show it. The complete opposite of pacs recent opponants.

If you honestly believe both Cotto and Margarito were zombies then I will respect your opinion. But can you please post the facts that they were indeed weight drained/zombies/shadows of their former selves? I'm gonna tell you right now, if you're going to post an article from a boxing "expert" saying they were, then I'm not buying that because like what you're saying again and again, those are purely opinions.

[Hornfinger]

i liked the quote used by yb the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-hopkins at 156?

Chavez-whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-marinez at 158? Hardly a moan.

But with pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
And if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

Btw no one forced oscar to fight manny, it was oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the a side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with manny.

in those fights listed how many of the guys coming down to the weight lost?

i think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them i don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights i saw. You presumably disagree?

my point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, i think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. That can't be said for the pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up

you think the out come of hagler vs leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?

the result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If cotto had beat pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what williams did with martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.

In my opinion, the only fight pacquiao had where i thought they maybe did that for that reason was the cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought hatton at hatton's natural weight - 140, mayweather made hatton come up to 147. Pac met odlh at a middle point, and don't forget, odlh was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.

of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.

I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the facts speak for themselves.

what you are saying is that if williams had beat martinez, you would given him a ton of crap like you are doing now, but because he lost, you're giving him a free pass?

answer this question....


Did martinez look like a zombie shadow of a man in the ring?

You didn't answer my question.

My point was that varying the weight from the weight class (e.g. 145 from 147 or 158 from 160) to gain an advantage is the actual problem. Whether the advantage pays off is really besides the point.

What you are saying is that is that if Martinez had looked gaunt and out-of-it, you would have given Williams crap for doing it?

To answer your question, I was there and I didn't think Martinez looked like a Zombie shadow of a man, but I thought it was low for Williams to make him come down in weight either way, and in a sense, he got his just desert.

Martinez didn't look like a zombie and won the fight. Was he weight drained? well if he was he didn't show it. The complete opposite of pacs recent opponants.

If you honestly believe both Cotto and Margarito were zombies then I will respect your opinion. But can you please post the facts that they were indeed weight drained/zombies/shadows of their former selves? I'm gonna tell you right now, if you're going to post an article from a boxing "expert" saying they were, then I'm not buying that because like what you're saying again and again, those are purely opinions.

Neither were 100% in my opinion.

[generalbulldog]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

[Hornfinger]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

Skirting round the main issue and not sticking to the main point and facts just shows you're a woman.

[milmascaras1]

arcanum,

you delicate little biatch, where do you see the word "filipino" on my comments? doesn't pacquiao have any non-filipino fans? i wasn't talking to filipino fans but to all pacquiao fans. quit being such a pussy and go to school and learn to comprehend what somebody writes. that's what's wrong with pactardo fans, you peeps are too politically correct and you get offended by everything. learn to man up and defend yourselves without swiftly running to the mods for protection just because you THINK i said something racist!!! word of advise, grow some real man-plums instead of those little dingle berries you have now!

[arcanum26]

arcanum,

you delicate little biatch, where do you see the word "filipino" on my comments? doesn't pacquiao have any non-filipino fans? i wasn't talking to filipino fans but to all pacquiao fans. quit being such a pussy and go to school and learn to comprehend what somebody writes. that's what's wrong with pactardo fans, you peeps are too politically correct and you get offended by everything. learn to man up and defend yourselves without swiftly running to the mods for protection just because you THINK i said something racist!!! word of advise, grow some real man-plums instead of those little dingle berries you have now!

Are you really that stupid? Anytime you associate pac and nonito, which group springs to mind? Of course it's filipinos. So are you saying that all pacquiao fans are nonito fans too? Wow.. I mean really? If Pac retires, nonito is the only credible fighter left for pac fans around the world? I knew you were an idiot but really? And can you please enlighten me when did I "run" to the mods for protection? Trust me, you didn't need my help when you got banned. You had it coming. Again I advise you to read up on the entire thread before you start sputtering nonsense. You're just making a complete fool of yourself. Don't derail the topic.

[erics44]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

thats the biggest load of bosh ive ever heard soz

of all the crazy opinions on this thread / forum you have to come up with a corker thats not boxing related

[generalbulldog]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

thats the biggest load of bosh ive ever heard soz

of all the crazy opinions on this thread / forum you have to come up with a corker thats not boxing related

No it's the simple facts of debating. You don't answer a question by asking a question, it usually means the other party has no rebuttal or seriously lacks critical thinking skills.

[Kev]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

thats the biggest load of bosh ive ever heard soz

of all the crazy opinions on this thread / forum you have to come up with a corker thats not boxing related

No it's the simple facts of debating. You don't answer a question by asking a question, it usually means the other party has no rebuttal or seriously lacks critical thinking skills.

I think Jesus Christ might disagree with you on this. But what does HE know, He was the only the Son of God after all. You're an expert.

[generalbulldog]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

thats the biggest load of bosh ive ever heard soz

of all the crazy opinions on this thread / forum you have to come up with a corker thats not boxing related

No it's the simple facts of debating. You don't answer a question by asking a question, it usually means the other party has no rebuttal or seriously lacks critical thinking skills.

I think Jesus Christ might disagree with you on this. But what does HE know, He was the only the Son of God after all. You're an expert.

WTF? That was completely out of left field. Maybe I'll get Miles in here and we can talk about the Israelis. Heard Bob Arum is a Zionist Jew.

[Kev]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

thats the biggest load of bosh ive ever heard soz

of all the crazy opinions on this thread / forum you have to come up with a corker thats not boxing related

No it's the simple facts of debating. You don't answer a question by asking a question, it usually means the other party has no rebuttal or seriously lacks critical thinking skills.

I think Jesus Christ might disagree with you on this. But what does HE know, He was the only the Son of God after all. You're an expert.

WTF? That was completely out of left field. Maybe I'll get Miles in here and we can talk about the Israelis. Heard Bob Arum is a Zionist Jew.

Read the Bible, Jesus never answered a question directly. Instead he would turn it back on his accusers and leave them dumbfounded and wanting to string him up and nail him to a tree.

[erics44]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

thats the biggest load of bosh ive ever heard soz

of all the crazy opinions on this thread / forum you have to come up with a corker thats not boxing related

No it's the simple facts of debating. You don't answer a question by asking a question, it usually means the other party has no rebuttal or seriously lacks critical thinking skills.

doesnt dude

people who say shit like thar usually lack critical thinking skills