De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[Kev]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

thats the biggest load of bosh ive ever heard soz

of all the crazy opinions on this thread / forum you have to come up with a corker thats not boxing related

No it's the simple facts of debating. You don't answer a question by asking a question, it usually means the other party has no rebuttal or seriously lacks critical thinking skills.

I think Jesus Christ might disagree with you on this. But what does HE know, He was the only the Son of God after all. You're an expert.

WTF? That was completely out of left field. Maybe I'll get Miles in here and we can talk about the Israelis. Heard Bob Arum is a Zionist Jew.

Read the Bible, Jesus never answered a question directly. Instead he would turn it back on his accusers and leave them dumbfounded and wanting to string him up and nail him to a tree.

[Gandalf]

Debating 101 kids. Never answer a question by asking a question. Whether in a essay, report, or regular debating. It shows poor critical thinking skills.

thats the biggest load of bosh ive ever heard soz

of all the crazy opinions on this thread / forum you have to come up with a corker thats not boxing related

No it's the simple facts of debating. You don't answer a question by asking a question, it usually means the other party has no rebuttal or seriously lacks critical thinking skills.

I think Jesus Christ might disagree with you on this. But what does HE know, He was the only the Son of God after all. You're an expert.

WTF? That was completely out of left field. Maybe I'll get Miles in here and we can talk about the Israelis. Heard Bob Arum is a Zionist Jew.

Read the Bible, Jesus never answered a question directly. Instead he would turn it back on his accusers and leave them dumbfounded and wanting to string him up and nail him to a tree.

That sounds like Ben Bernanke to me.

Jesus was the son of god, my arse. There is no god and so there can be no chosen people either. Those crazy zionist nutters! Is that left field enough?

[Gandalf]

Actually, that post above was just a bit of fun, so let's stick to insulting one another and discusssing Manny Pac and his fondness of catchweights. I'm not one for hijacking the main board, but just thought I should add something as miles and Israel were being brought up and something a bit random was seemingly being asked for. That's all.

[Hornfinger]

After 10 pages the fact remains the same.


If a couple of pounds under the weight limit makes no difference to a fighters performance on the night, why would pacroid, and his team of gay homo erotic cheating drug dealers, insist on the catch weight or lower weightclass?
,
If it made no difference Pacroid would have fought DLH at 154, Cotto at 147, Margarito at 154.

[Kev]

After 10 pages the fact remains the same.


If a couple of pounds under the weight limit makes no difference to a fighters performance on the night, why would pacroid, and his team of gay homo erotic cheating drug dealers, insist on the catch weight or lower weightclass?
,
If it made no difference Pacroid would have fought DLH at 154, Cotto at 147, Margarito at 154.

Who has said it made no difference? We are saying that being weight drained was not a factor.

There are many people on here arguing that if Marquez is to fight Manny the fight shouldn't be above 140 because Marquez doesn't carry the weight as well as Manny, and that it is fairer to fight at junior welter than welter as Marquez is not a welterweight.

The argument isn't that Manny will be weight drained at 140, he could make the weight no problem. It's just that he is suited to a lower weight class.

Well it's the same for Manny. Manny is not nearly as big as Antonio Margarito, and is considerably smaller than Miguel Cotto also. He's NOT a junior middleweight. He entered the ring against Margarito weighing 148lbs, compared to Margarito's 165.

If it wasn't a catchweight Margarito would have likely entered the ring at 170. That would be a 22lb weight advantage. That's a big difference!

How can you not see this? When two guys are different sizes they have find somewhere to meet, a weight to fight at. Against Cotto it was agreed 145, against Margarito it was agreed 150. You could make exactly the same argument for fighting Cotto at full welter, why not at 154? And why not fight Margarito at 160?

The higher they go the more it favours the bigger man because Manny isn't gaining weight. He's being massively outweighed.

I've said it many times but I will reiterate it. Your posts are ridiculous.

[Kev]

and Generalbulldog is dead wrong about answering questions with questions being a poor form of debate. As I've already said, the Son of God handled people almost exclusively like that. Done correctly it's the best form of destroying an argument.

Instead of getting into a debate (which obviously God is far too smart to do) He just redirected people's accusations and questions back to them. It was genuis.

As an example. The Pharisees were trying to catch Jesus out for his going around and forgiving people's sins, even when they were to be executed according to God's OWN law. So they tried to trap him in his own words by dragging a woman caught in the very act of adultary before him and demanding that she be stoned to death. How could HE reason HIS way out of this one they thought. He'll have to contradict Himself now and defy the word of God if He proposes to forgive her and deny the righteous punishment due to her.

But what did Jesus do? He didn't get into a debate, or argue why they were wrong. He just said 'Let him who is without sin throw the first stone'. He just turned it around on them. They demanded justice, but he deflected the accusation back on them. If they demand justice then justice applies to them too. They tried to trick Him and instead became trapped by their OWN accusations and demands.

Genius. A true genuis NEVER gets involved in lenghty debates and meet questions head on. They deflect the opponent's aggression like a push hands martial artist so that when they attack they hit only air and are knocked off balance by their own attack.

Generalbulldog does not have a clue on this.

[Hornfinger]

After 10 pages the fact remains the same.


If a couple of pounds under the weight limit makes no difference to a fighters performance on the night, why would pacroid, and his team of gay homo erotic cheating drug dealers, insist on the catch weight or lower weightclass?
,
If it made no difference Pacroid would have fought DLH at 154, Cotto at 147, Margarito at 154.

Who has said it made no difference? We are saying that being weight drained was not a factor.

There are many people on here arguing that if Marquez is to fight Manny the fight shouldn't be above 140 because Marquez doesn't carry the weight as well as Manny, and that it is fairer to fight at junior welter than welter as Marquez is not a welterweight.

The argument isn't that Manny will be weight drained at 140, he could make the weight no problem. It's just that he is suited to a lower weight class.

Well it's the same for Manny. Manny is not nearly as big as Antonio Margarito, and is considerably smaller than Miguel Cotto also. He's NOT a junior middleweight. He entered the ring against Margarito weighing 148lbs, compared to Margarito's 165.

If it wasn't a catchweight Margarito would have likely entered the ring at 170. That would be a 22lb weight advantage. That's a big difference!

How can you not see this? When two guys are different sizes they have find somewhere to meet, a weight to fight at. Against Cotto it was agreed 145, against Margarito it was agreed 150. You could make exactly the same argument for fighting Cotto at full welter, why not at 154? And why not fight Margarito at 160?

The higher they go the more it favours the bigger man because Manny isn't gaining weight. He's being massively outweighed.

I've said it many times but I will reiterate it. Your posts are ridiculous.

i don't really care that a joke like you thinks my posts are rediculous. I wouldn't even regard you as a boxing fan because from what I've read you have no clue what your talking about and the fact this post i'm replying to is you running around chasing your tale shows that.

Now I'm going to rip your moronic post apart.....

Who has said it made no difference? We are saying that being weight drained was not a factor.

Right there is a huge contradiction. Weight is a factor and does make a difference but weight drainage wasn't a factor. And my posts are rediculous? Yours are just all out dumb.

You're now saying dropping down the weight does make a difference and so pac is trying to weaken his opponants before getting in the ring. I thought you disagreed with me mr dildo? It seems you don't know which side of the arguement you're on

There are many people on here arguing that if Marquez is to fight Manny the fight shouldn't be above 140 because Marquez doesn't carry the weight as well as Manny, and that it is fairer to fight at junior welter than welter as Marquez is not a welterweight.

Again this is something that I have been saying. Manny has never made 147 on the scales at a weigh in, neither has marquez so why fight at 147? Again I thought you were arguing with my rediculous post? you're agreeing with them.

The argument isn't that Manny will be weight drained at 140, he could make the weight no problem. It's just that he is suited to a lower weight class.

The thread title, must I remind you is 'De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st'

No one is saying Manny Pacquiao will be drained at 140. the thread is if Manny Pacquioa beat ODH, Cotto and margarito legitly. And the answer is no because in each fight he either made his opponant go down to an unattainable weight class or fight them at a catch weight. And as you said in your first sentance of this moronic post 'no one has said it made no difference.'

TBH I actually feel like I'm explaining this to a retarded child....

Well it's the same for Manny. Manny is not nearly as big as Antonio Margarito, and is considerably smaller than Miguel Cotto also. He's NOT a junior middleweight. He entered the ring against Margarito weighing 148lbs, compared to Margarito's 165.

SO DON'T TAKE THE FIGHT!

If you can't fight Antonio Margarito at 154 then don't get in the ring with him. If you're not a junior middle weight DON'T FIGHT FOR THE FUCKING JUNIOR MIDDLE WEIGHT TITLE! It's that simple. Cotto fights at 147 for a reason. That's the weight he fights best at. Not a pound below. Manny and his team knew that and thats why they made the catch weight.

Honestly Dildo are you fucking thick as pig shit? By the way that's rhetorical.

If it wasn't a catchweight Margarito would have likely entered the ring at 170. That would be a 22lb weight advantage. That's a big difference!

SEE ABOVE.

And why would Toni have entered at 170? because that's what his body naturally goes to function at. If Toni is normally around 170 in the ring but wasn't for the pacroid fight that tells me one thing. He was weight drained due to making the catch weight.

Many fighters have entered the ring with their opponant weighing 22 pounds + heavier and they've gone on and won the fight.

AGAIN IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE WEIGHT PARAMATERS OF A DIVISION DON'T FIGHT THERE!

How can you not see this? When two guys are different sizes they have find somewhere to meet, a weight to fight at. Against Cotto it was agreed 145, against Margarito it was agreed 150. You could make exactly the same argument for fighting Cotto at full welter, why not at 154? And why not fight Margarito at 160?

This is rediculously silly. Every year fighters move up weight classes with no monaing complaining or catch weights.

If you can't compete at the higher weight class because the fighters up there are 'too big' then don't go up there.

HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT!?

The higher they go the more it favours the bigger man because Manny isn't gaining weight. He's being massively outweighed.

THEN HE SHOULDN'T FIGHT AT THAT WEIGHT (how many times have I said that now? are you getting the message yet?)

I've said it many times but I will reiterate it. Your posts are ridiculous.

[Kev]

After 10 pages the fact remains the same.


If a couple of pounds under the weight limit makes no difference to a fighters performance on the night, why would pacroid, and his team of gay homo erotic cheating drug dealers, insist on the catch weight or lower weightclass?
,
If it made no difference Pacroid would have fought DLH at 154, Cotto at 147, Margarito at 154.

Who has said it made no difference? We are saying that being weight drained was not a factor.

There are many people on here arguing that if Marquez is to fight Manny the fight shouldn't be above 140 because Marquez doesn't carry the weight as well as Manny, and that it is fairer to fight at junior welter than welter as Marquez is not a welterweight.

The argument isn't that Manny will be weight drained at 140, he could make the weight no problem. It's just that he is suited to a lower weight class.

Well it's the same for Manny. Manny is not nearly as big as Antonio Margarito, and is considerably smaller than Miguel Cotto also. He's NOT a junior middleweight. He entered the ring against Margarito weighing 148lbs, compared to Margarito's 165.

If it wasn't a catchweight Margarito would have likely entered the ring at 170. That would be a 22lb weight advantage. That's a big difference!

How can you not see this? When two guys are different sizes they have find somewhere to meet, a weight to fight at. Against Cotto it was agreed 145, against Margarito it was agreed 150. You could make exactly the same argument for fighting Cotto at full welter, why not at 154? And why not fight Margarito at 160?

The higher they go the more it favours the bigger man because Manny isn't gaining weight. He's being massively outweighed.

I've said it many times but I will reiterate it. Your posts are ridiculous.

i don't really care that a joke like you thinks my posts are rediculous. I wouldn't even regard you as a boxing fan because from what I've read you have no clue what your talking about and the fact this post i'm replying to is you running around chasing your tale shows that.

Now I'm going to rip your moronic post apart.....

Who has said it made no difference? We are saying that being weight drained was not a factor.

Right there is a huge contradiction. Weight is a factor and does make a difference but weight drainage wasn't a factor. And my posts are rediculous? Yours are just all out dumb.

You're now saying dropping down the weight does make a difference and so pac is trying to weaken his opponants before getting in the ring. I thought you disagreed with me mr dildo? It seems you don't know which side of the arguement you're on

There are many people on here arguing that if Marquez is to fight Manny the fight shouldn't be above 140 because Marquez doesn't carry the weight as well as Manny, and that it is fairer to fight at junior welter than welter as Marquez is not a welterweight.

Again this is something that I have been saying. Manny has never made 147 on the scales at a weigh in, neither has marquez so why fight at 147? Again I thought you were arguing with my rediculous post? you're agreeing with them.

The argument isn't that Manny will be weight drained at 140, he could make the weight no problem. It's just that he is suited to a lower weight class.

The thread title, must I remind you is 'De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st'

No one is saying Manny Pacquiao will be drained at 140. the thread is if Manny Pacquioa beat ODH, Cotto and margarito legitly. And the answer is no because in each fight he either made his opponant go down to an unattainable weight class or fight them at a catch weight. And as you said in your first sentance of this moronic post 'no one has said it made no difference.'

TBH I actually feel like I'm explaining this to a retarded child....

Well it's the same for Manny. Manny is not nearly as big as Antonio Margarito, and is considerably smaller than Miguel Cotto also. He's NOT a junior middleweight. He entered the ring against Margarito weighing 148lbs, compared to Margarito's 165.

SO DON'T TAKE THE FIGHT!

If you can't fight Antonio Margarito at 154 then don't get in the ring with him. If you're not a junior middle weight DON'T FIGHT FOR THE FUCKING JUNIOR MIDDLE WEIGHT TITLE! It's that simple. Cotto fights at 147 for a reason. That's the weight he fights best at. Not a pound below. Manny and his team knew that and thats why they made the catch weight.

Honestly Dildo are you fucking thick as pig shit? By the way that's rhetorical.

If it wasn't a catchweight Margarito would have likely entered the ring at 170. That would be a 22lb weight advantage. That's a big difference!

SEE ABOVE.

And why would Toni have entered at 170? because that's what his body naturally goes to function at. If Toni is normally around 170 in the ring but wasn't for the pacroid fight that tells me one thing. He was weight drained due to making the catch weight.

Many fighters have entered the ring with their opponant weighing 22 pounds + heavier and they've gone on and won the fight.

AGAIN IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE WEIGHT PARAMATERS OF A DIVISION DON'T FIGHT THERE!

How can you not see this? When two guys are different sizes they have find somewhere to meet, a weight to fight at. Against Cotto it was agreed 145, against Margarito it was agreed 150. You could make exactly the same argument for fighting Cotto at full welter, why not at 154? And why not fight Margarito at 160?

This is rediculously silly. Every year fighters move up weight classes with no monaing complaining or catch weights.

If you can't compete at the higher weight class because the fighters up there are 'too big' then don't go up there.

HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT!?

The higher they go the more it favours the bigger man because Manny isn't gaining weight. He's being massively outweighed.

THEN HE SHOULDN'T FIGHT AT THAT WEIGHT (how many times have I said that now? are you getting the message yet?)

I've said it many times but I will reiterate it. Your posts are ridiculous.

Firstly, it's ridiculous, not rediculous, although it does not surprise me that you are consistently unable to spell.

And you are again missing the point totally. People weigh different amounts. When two fighters of different size fight each other for a fight to be fair it needs to take place at a weight where both are able to function effectively.

Manny, as you pointed out has never weighed more than 148 lbs, so fighting at any weight above that, his weight disadvantage will only increase. He won't be gaining any weight but his opponent's will be.

So he fought Margarito for the 154 lb title, whilst he weighed only 148 lbs, and Margarito weighed 165. The 24 hour weigh in as I have said many times favours the naturally bigger man as he is able to rehydrate far above the maximum weight limit within that time limit.

It's also NOT an established part of boxing tradition. A guick google search shows that 24 hours weigh in's were introduced in 1983 to appease the media companies who wanted to hype the weigh in themselves. This now allowed men naturally too big for a weight class to compete in it.

Back to Margarito. Margarito has been a career welterweight, fighting at 147 lbs. Against Margarito he weighed in at just over 146. He was not weight drained against Manny. That wasn't the factor.

That factor was that as Margarito is much bigger than Manny, given the 24 hour weigh in discrepency he would be able to rehydrate to up to 170 lbs for a 154 lb fight. Manny meanwhile would not even get up to 150lbs, so he would have been fighting somebody who weighed over 20 lbs more.

The cathweight evens it out. The truly fair thing would be to have fighters enter the ring at the weight at which they are fighting, which is what happens is horse racing and Formula One for example. Under these circumstances Manny would probably even be able to win the middleweight title.

The catchweight is there to stamp out an prexistent bias. Should he be allowed to have fought for a vacant title belt? Well I guess that depends on your opinion. Personally I would rather Manny and Margarito, two established multiple world champions got to fight for a vacant strap than two ranking contenders. To me having the p4p number one best fighter in the world as a world champion is more credible than letting it go to the winner of Vanes Maritroysan and Ryan Rhodes for example but I guess you can disagree.

But argument against Margarito or Cotto being weight drained is simply false. They were not. Neither has even hinted at it being the case.

The simple maths is as follows.

Manny weighs a max of 148 lbs. He is prepared to let his opponent weigh 165, but not 170 for a 154 lb title.

You want fairness, make them enter the ring at no more than 154. Then see who wins. I reckon Manny would even beat Martinez under those conditions. And guess what, that would be fair according even to you. If you can't fight effectively at the weight class limit, then you shouldn't be fighting there right, your words not mine. Manny will fight any fighter in the world at 154 who enters the ring against him at 154 lbs. And he would likely beat them all too.

[Julius Rain]

After 10 pages the fact remains the same.


If a couple of pounds under the weight limit makes no difference to a fighters performance on the night, why would pacroid, and his team of gay homo erotic cheating drug dealers, insist on the catch weight or lower weightclass?
,
If it made no difference Pacroid would have fought DLH at 154, Cotto at 147, Margarito at 154.

After 10 pages you and Milmacas are still the two the forum is laughing at.

[mafiajoey]

After 10 pages the fact remains the same.


If a couple of pounds under the weight limit makes no difference to a fighters performance on the night, why would pacroid, and his team of gay homo erotic cheating drug dealers, insist on the catch weight or lower weightclass?
,
If it made no difference Pacroid would have fought DLH at 154, Cotto at 147, Margarito at 154.

After 10 pages you and Milmacas are still the two the forum is laughing at.

According to who is online right now the only one laughing is me, cause you got PacRoids balls in your mouth. I figured out Pac must be on Roids...cause his balls have shrunk enough that his ball lickers can mouth his balls and not gag and still type. You probably think that guy in your avatar has changed the country too lol