Which fighter do you credit the most?

[Kev]

carl froch - this guy comes to fight and will fight anybody, anytime. that's why i admire him so much. was impressed the way he absolutely dominated the tough arthur abraham. would like to see him fight andre ward and lucian bute in the future.

vic darchinyan - say what you will about vic but he's another one of those brave fighters who is willing to fight anybody. very awkward style but he brings it every time. after his loss to donaire, didn't sulk and came back to face tough opponents.

tomasz adamek - gotta love this guy. true warrior and stepped up to heavyweight and fighting heavies much bigger than he. i was glad he beat the crap out of chris arreola. however, might be too small for either klitschkos.

shane mosley - so what if he is past it and washed up! the guy's resume is second to none in terms of opponents fought. can't blame him for wanting a huge payday with pacquiao. have always admired his attitude and humbleness.

yonnhy perez - love this guy. love his style, heart and resolve. very likeable person as well. was torn between him and abner mares when they fought and glad neither of them lost against each other. very popular within the mexican community in california.

sergio martinez - this guy is such an incredible athlete, it's no wonder he's a top boxer. i think before he started boxing he was a professional soccer play and avid bicyclist. one of my favorites cause he wants the biggest and toughest fights.

timothy bradley - very underrated boxer who only wants to fight the bigger names. no doubt in my mind he's the top jr. welterweight. a bradley/khan fight would be an epic battle between two very fast and young fighters in their prime.

miguel angel cotto - look at his record and you will see he isn't afraid to fight anybody. a true boricua warrior who not only does boricuas proud but all latinos. very classy fighter with a great demeaner and humbleness. one of my favorite boricuas of all-time.

juan manuel lopez - even though he's young and hasn't been a champion for a long time, just look at his career opponents and it will confirm what a fearless warrior this cat is. love this guy (non-gayish) because of his classiness and level headedness.

juan manuel marquez - this guy seems to be getting better technically as he gets older. his defeat of katsidis was a thing of beauty. got dropped hard, was hurt, and will managed to impose his skills and will on a younger warrior like katsidis.

fernando montiel - i honestly didn't think he had much of a chance against the great hasegawa. was surprised to see he ended it so early. this is another underrated warrior who despite his diminitive size, regularly fights opponents much bigger than him. his war with donaire is going to be a treat for boxing fans worldwide.

Great list i agree with every single name.

Do you think all these guys have a better resume than Manny too? If these started jumping up 3 or more weight classes and destroying the biggest names but at a catchweight 2 pounds below their rivals official weight, you don't credit their wins?

So if Montiel moves up and knocks out Humberto Soto at a catchweight between superfeather and lightweight it would tarnish boxing and be a manipulative fight on Montiels part, or if Tomothy Bradley dominated Paul Williams at 158 lbs you would slate that win too?

[donnydarkoIRL]

I'd have to say Juan Manuel Marquez.
He is the most courageous fighter of our generation imo.

[generalbulldog]

Evander Holyfield, hands down. No fighter of this era has a better resume than him in terms of opponents and Holyfield never ducked anyone or got accused of ducking. Not to mentioned the heart inside the ring. And this man still wants to fight any top HW including the Klit bros and Haye.

This man is also 1 of the most hated fighters ever because he shattered Tyson's myth.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Bil, what is your point mate

Why don't you just make a thread that defends Pacquiao's resume rather than make a thread for other people to make lists so that you can assume we would bash those in the event of some shit that hasn't even happened yet

Again, what exactly is your point?

[Kev]

Bil, what is your point mate

Why don't you just make a thread that defends Pacquiao's resume rather than make a thread for other people to make lists so that you can assume we would bash those in the event of some shit that hasn't even happened yet

Again, what exactly is your point?

My point was explained in the first post. Pac has an abundance of haters, people who refuse to give him credit for his victories. So I was asking what fighters they give more credit to than Pacquaio, i.e if you aren't satisfied with Manny's resume then who do you think is doing it better......

[milmascaras1]

bilbo,

you asked the question "who is the fighter who is fighting the opponents we want him to". you didn't say anything about resumes. whereas it's true that pacquiao has done incredible things in the past few years, he and his team continue to get ridiculed by fans all over the world for their choices of opponents.

evander holyfield is another fighter i forgot. great, great competitor!

[arcanum26]

bilbo,

you asked the question "who is the fighter who is fighting the opponents we want him to". you didn't say anything about resumes. whereas it's true that pacquiao has done incredible things in the past few years, he and his team continue to get ridiculed by fans all over the world for their choices of opponents.

evander holyfield is another fighter i forgot. great, great competitor!

Choices of opponents like margarito? Didn't you favor him to win against manny? And yet you still ridicule him, calling him a fraud/protected fighter. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Rantcatrat]

I like milmas's list. It's well done and thorough. I think you need to throw Jean Pascal on there. I know he allegedly ducked Miranda but he fought Carl Froch in England, a rugged Diaconu twice, and then bested Chad Dawson. And now he is fighting Bernard Hopkins.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan, but I am not quite sure about JuanMa Lopez being on there. We've wanted a Lopez/Gamboa fight for a while and it hasn't come to fruition. If Lopez is on there, shouldn't Gamboa be? Plus Lopen basically avoided fighting Celestino Caballero. I'm not going to call it a "duck," but it was close. And there is talk of Lopez fighting Litzau next? I'm glad Litzau is getting another pay day, but Lopez needs a more challenging fight.

[Kev]

I like milmas's list. It's well done and thorough. I think you need to throw Jean Pascal on there. I know he allegedly ducked Miranda but he fought Carl Froch in England, a rugged Diaconu twice, and then bested Chad Dawson. And now he is fighting Bernard Hopkins.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan, but I am not quite sure about JuanMa Lopez being on there. We've wanted a Lopez/Gamboa fight for a while and it hasn't come to fruition. If Lopez is on there, shouldn't Gamboa be? Plus Lopenz basically avoided fighting Celestino Caballero. I'm not going to call it a "duck," but it was close. And there is talk of Lopez fighting Litzau next? I'm glad Litzau is getting another pay day, but Lopez needs a more challenging fight.

I liked his list too. Certainly I respect all of those fighters and their acomplishments. Were they jump up three weights classes however and fight the best guys in thos classes at catchweights, I'd still think that improved their resume's.

If Carl Froch took on David Haye at 208 lbs and knocked him out, to me that would be the best acomplishment of his career by far. The fact that David had to weight in at 2 lbs less than his fight with Audley would not really matter to me much at all. Froch would be a legend in my eyes.

[Mar]

....all these guys should be given their proper credit. It's just as stupid to discredit floyd as it is to discredit pac for anything they've done in the ring. Fight person a,b, and c. And people will bitch that you avoided fighter d. Going on a quest to try and please fans is a silly one. Check fernando vargas and tommy hearn's bank acct's and see how much the fans really care about the punishment you take trying to please them. Didn't we just get done watching pac destroy tony ten minutes ago and people are already complaining about who he does and doesn't fight next.

[arcanum26]

....all these guys should be given their proper credit. It's just as stupid to discredit floyd as it is to discredit pac for anything they've done in the ring. Fight person a,b, and c. And people will bitch that you avoided fighter d. Going on a quest to try and please fans is a silly one. Check fernando vargas and tommy hearn's bank acct's and see how much the fans really care about the punishment you take trying to please them. Didn't we just get done watching pac destroy tony ten minutes ago and people are already complaining about who he does and doesn't fight next.

What's truly baffling is that the same guy/s who complained about pac not facing tough opponents favored margo to win against manny in their fight. Poor margarito. Abandoned by his most loyal fan once he got beat up like a hamburger.

Which leads me to believe that if a pac-jmm or pac-berto gets made, and if manny beats either of the two, the guy who favors jmm/berto would praise manny immediately after this purely hypothetical fight then the next week would again start complaining about manny being a fraud/protected fighter. Obviously this last paragraph is purely hypothetical. Just saying that judging from the events in the past, it could very well happen.

[Kev]

bilbo,

you asked the question "who is the fighter who is fighting the opponents we want him to". you didn't say anything about resumes. whereas it's true that pacquiao has done incredible things in the past few years, he and his team continue to get ridiculed by fans all over the world for their choices of opponents.

evander holyfield is another fighter i forgot. great, great competitor!

Perhaps I didn't explain the original post well.

Yeah basically what I am saying is, 'if Manny's resume has been disappointing since moving up from super featherweight a couple years ago in the eyes of critics on here, who do they think is fighting more significant fights and has acheived more than him in the past couple years?'

Also, following on from that, if the guys you think are achieving more were to then jump up three weight classes and dominate the cream of those higher weight classes, but at catchweights a couple pounds below the weight class, would you discredit those victories as not worth very much? So if Martinez dominated Jean Pascal at 173 lbs or Tim Bradley knocked out Paul Williams at 158lbs would these results not mean anything to you, or would you even go further, and cynically believe these fights were stacked in favour of the smaller guy?

[ICB]

bilbo,

you asked the question "who is the fighter who is fighting the opponents we want him to". you didn't say anything about resumes. whereas it's true that pacquiao has done incredible things in the past few years, he and his team continue to get ridiculed by fans all over the world for their choices of opponents.

evander holyfield is another fighter i forgot. great, great competitor!

Perhaps I didn't explain the original post well.

Yeah basically what I am saying is, 'if Manny's resume has been disappointing since moving up from super featherweight a couple years ago in the eyes of critics on here, who do they think is fighting more significant fights and has acheived more than him in the past couple years?'

Also, following on from that, if the guys you think are achieving more were to then jump up three weight classes and dominate the cream of those higher weight classes, but at catchweights a couple pounds below the weight class, would you discredit those victories as not worth very much? So if Martinez dominated Jean Pascal at 173 lbs or Tim Bradley knocked out Paul Williams at 158lbs would these results not mean anything to you, or would you even go further, and cynically believe these fights were stacked in favour of the smaller guy?

I would of liked to have seen Manny Pacquiao, explore the Lightweight division a bit more. Because he basically skipped that division all together, when there was young hungry fighters.

But again i can understand why he did, because of the big money fights vs Hatton, ODLH. But still you can't really fault the man, what he's done is incredible end of.

[ICB]

carl froch - this guy comes to fight and will fight anybody, anytime. that's why i admire him so much. was impressed the way he absolutely dominated the tough arthur abraham. would like to see him fight andre ward and lucian bute in the future.

vic darchinyan - say what you will about vic but he's another one of those brave fighters who is willing to fight anybody. very awkward style but he brings it every time. after his loss to donaire, didn't sulk and came back to face tough opponents.

tomasz adamek - gotta love this guy. true warrior and stepped up to heavyweight and fighting heavies much bigger than he. i was glad he beat the crap out of chris arreola. however, might be too small for either klitschkos.

shane mosley - so what if he is past it and washed up! the guy's resume is second to none in terms of opponents fought. can't blame him for wanting a huge payday with pacquiao. have always admired his attitude and humbleness.

yonnhy perez - love this guy. love his style, heart and resolve. very likeable person as well. was torn between him and abner mares when they fought and glad neither of them lost against each other. very popular within the mexican community in california.

sergio martinez - this guy is such an incredible athlete, it's no wonder he's a top boxer. i think before he started boxing he was a professional soccer play and avid bicyclist. one of my favorites cause he wants the biggest and toughest fights.

timothy bradley - very underrated boxer who only wants to fight the bigger names. no doubt in my mind he's the top jr. welterweight. a bradley/khan fight would be an epic battle between two very fast and young fighters in their prime.

miguel angel cotto - look at his record and you will see he isn't afraid to fight anybody. a true boricua warrior who not only does boricuas proud but all latinos. very classy fighter with a great demeaner and humbleness. one of my favorite boricuas of all-time.

juan manuel lopez - even though he's young and hasn't been a champion for a long time, just look at his career opponents and it will confirm what a fearless warrior this cat is. love this guy (non-gayish) because of his classiness and level headedness.

juan manuel marquez - this guy seems to be getting better technically as he gets older. his defeat of katsidis was a thing of beauty. got dropped hard, was hurt, and will managed to impose his skills and will on a younger warrior like katsidis.

fernando montiel - i honestly didn't think he had much of a chance against the great hasegawa. was surprised to see he ended it so early. this is another underrated warrior who despite his diminitive size, regularly fights opponents much bigger than him. his war with donaire is going to be a treat for boxing fans worldwide.

Great list i agree with every single name.

Do you think all these guys have a better resume than Manny too? If these started jumping up 3 or more weight classes and destroying the biggest names but at a catchweight 2 pounds below their rivals official weight, you don't credit their wins?

So if Montiel moves up and knocks out Humberto Soto at a catchweight between superfeather and lightweight it would tarnish boxing and be a manipulative fight on Montiels part, or if Tomothy Bradley dominated Paul Williams at 158 lbs you would slate that win too?

No i don't but i don't slate Manny Pacquiao i never have, im big fan of JMM but im not a Manny Pacquiao hater. And i think what he's done is incredible.

I mean people were laughing at the thought of Manny Pacquiao vs ODLH, happening a few years ago. And now he's beating the best Welterweight's in the division with ease, people are slating him i don't get it.

[Kev]

carl froch - this guy comes to fight and will fight anybody, anytime. that's why i admire him so much. was impressed the way he absolutely dominated the tough arthur abraham. would like to see him fight andre ward and lucian bute in the future.

vic darchinyan - say what you will about vic but he's another one of those brave fighters who is willing to fight anybody. very awkward style but he brings it every time. after his loss to donaire, didn't sulk and came back to face tough opponents.

tomasz adamek - gotta love this guy. true warrior and stepped up to heavyweight and fighting heavies much bigger than he. i was glad he beat the crap out of chris arreola. however, might be too small for either klitschkos.

shane mosley - so what if he is past it and washed up! the guy's resume is second to none in terms of opponents fought. can't blame him for wanting a huge payday with pacquiao. have always admired his attitude and humbleness.

yonnhy perez - love this guy. love his style, heart and resolve. very likeable person as well. was torn between him and abner mares when they fought and glad neither of them lost against each other. very popular within the mexican community in california.

sergio martinez - this guy is such an incredible athlete, it's no wonder he's a top boxer. i think before he started boxing he was a professional soccer play and avid bicyclist. one of my favorites cause he wants the biggest and toughest fights.

timothy bradley - very underrated boxer who only wants to fight the bigger names. no doubt in my mind he's the top jr. welterweight. a bradley/khan fight would be an epic battle between two very fast and young fighters in their prime.

miguel angel cotto - look at his record and you will see he isn't afraid to fight anybody. a true boricua warrior who not only does boricuas proud but all latinos. very classy fighter with a great demeaner and humbleness. one of my favorite boricuas of all-time.

juan manuel lopez - even though he's young and hasn't been a champion for a long time, just look at his career opponents and it will confirm what a fearless warrior this cat is. love this guy (non-gayish) because of his classiness and level headedness.

juan manuel marquez - this guy seems to be getting better technically as he gets older. his defeat of katsidis was a thing of beauty. got dropped hard, was hurt, and will managed to impose his skills and will on a younger warrior like katsidis.

fernando montiel - i honestly didn't think he had much of a chance against the great hasegawa. was surprised to see he ended it so early. this is another underrated warrior who despite his diminitive size, regularly fights opponents much bigger than him. his war with donaire is going to be a treat for boxing fans worldwide.

Great list i agree with every single name.

Do you think all these guys have a better resume than Manny too? If these started jumping up 3 or more weight classes and destroying the biggest names but at a catchweight 2 pounds below their rivals official weight, you don't credit their wins?

So if Montiel moves up and knocks out Humberto Soto at a catchweight between superfeather and lightweight it would tarnish boxing and be a manipulative fight on Montiels part, or if Tomothy Bradley dominated Paul Williams at 158 lbs you would slate that win too?

No i don't but i don't slate Manny Pacquiao i never have, im big fan of JMM but im not a Manny Pacquiao hater. And i think what he's done is incredible.

I mean people were laughing at the thought of Manny Pacquiao vs ODLH, happening a few years ago. And now he's beating the best Welterweight's in the division with ease, people are slating him i don't get it.

Ice definitely isn't the hater type. He may cheat at chess but his opinions on fighters are generally pretty rational.