Which fighter do you credit the most?

[arcanum26]

bilbo,

you asked the question "who is the fighter who is fighting the opponents we want him to". you didn't say anything about resumes. whereas it's true that pacquiao has done incredible things in the past few years, he and his team continue to get ridiculed by fans all over the world for their choices of opponents.

evander holyfield is another fighter i forgot. great, great competitor!

Choices of opponents like margarito? Didn't you favor him to win against manny? And yet you still ridicule him, calling him a fraud/protected fighter. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Rantcatrat]

I like milmas's list. It's well done and thorough. I think you need to throw Jean Pascal on there. I know he allegedly ducked Miranda but he fought Carl Froch in England, a rugged Diaconu twice, and then bested Chad Dawson. And now he is fighting Bernard Hopkins.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan, but I am not quite sure about JuanMa Lopez being on there. We've wanted a Lopez/Gamboa fight for a while and it hasn't come to fruition. If Lopez is on there, shouldn't Gamboa be? Plus Lopen basically avoided fighting Celestino Caballero. I'm not going to call it a "duck," but it was close. And there is talk of Lopez fighting Litzau next? I'm glad Litzau is getting another pay day, but Lopez needs a more challenging fight.

[Kev]

I like milmas's list. It's well done and thorough. I think you need to throw Jean Pascal on there. I know he allegedly ducked Miranda but he fought Carl Froch in England, a rugged Diaconu twice, and then bested Chad Dawson. And now he is fighting Bernard Hopkins.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan, but I am not quite sure about JuanMa Lopez being on there. We've wanted a Lopez/Gamboa fight for a while and it hasn't come to fruition. If Lopez is on there, shouldn't Gamboa be? Plus Lopenz basically avoided fighting Celestino Caballero. I'm not going to call it a "duck," but it was close. And there is talk of Lopez fighting Litzau next? I'm glad Litzau is getting another pay day, but Lopez needs a more challenging fight.

I liked his list too. Certainly I respect all of those fighters and their acomplishments. Were they jump up three weights classes however and fight the best guys in thos classes at catchweights, I'd still think that improved their resume's.

If Carl Froch took on David Haye at 208 lbs and knocked him out, to me that would be the best acomplishment of his career by far. The fact that David had to weight in at 2 lbs less than his fight with Audley would not really matter to me much at all. Froch would be a legend in my eyes.

[milmascaras1]

bilbo,

the big difference is that pacquiao isn't fighting any in their prime fighters at higher weights. imo, fighting and beating opponents at higher weight classes is vastly underrated, unless of course they're in their prime. do you not think marquez could have beaten de la hoya and ricky hatton too? cotto and clottey are different stories because they are much bigger than marquez and you've also got to consider marquez' age as well. while oscar is much bigger than marquez, if he came into a marquez fight in the same condition as he came in against pacquaio, marquez would have shut him out. but you cannot deny that at 37 yo., marquez has had a much better resume (with the exception of oscar's) than all of pacquiao's opponents at the higher weights. the reason why marquez/pacquiao needed to happen was because there was still a lot of questions to be answered after their two fights. most people thought marquez at least won the rematch.

the guys i mentioned, do fight opponents near their primes. sergio martinez has beaten pavlik and williams while those two were in their primes. and about pacquiao's resume, i never said it wasn't impressive. i'm just like any other fan who wants to see him challenged by a younger, in his prime opponent.

[milmascaras1]

oh, and i forgot to put in jean pascal. i was originally going to put him in but i totally forgot. this guy is a beast and i'm beginning to recognize him for what a great fighter he can be. this guy has it all, toughness, chin, endurance and power. the only thing he needs is more wins against top opponents and he could be something very special in the not too distant future.

[Kev]

bilbo,

the big difference is that pacquiao isn't fighting any in their prime fighters at higher weights. imo, fighting and beating opponents at higher weight classes is vastly underrated, unless of course they're in their prime. do you not think marquez could have beaten de la hoya and ricky hatton too? cotto and clottey are different stories because they are much bigger than marquez and you've also got to consider marquez' age as well. while oscar is much bigger than marquez, if he came into a marquez fight in the same condition as he came in against pacquaio, marquez would have shut him out. but you cannot deny that at 37 yo., marquez has had a much better resume (with the exception of oscar's) than all of pacquiao's opponents at the higher weights. the reason why marquez/pacquiao needed to happen was because there was still a lot of questions to be answered after their two fights. most people thought marquez at least won the rematch.

the guys i mentioned, do fight opponents near their primes. sergio martinez has beaten pavlik and williams while those two were in their primes. and about pacquiao's resume, i never said it wasn't impressive. i'm just like any other fan who wants to see him challenged by a younger, in his prime opponent.

Their ages aren't important here. They were the guys at the top. Who aside from Floyd has Manny dodged that was higher rated from junior welter to light middle than Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito etc?

You say he keeps fighting old men, (and only one of them was old) but they were BEST opponents out there. What welterweight are you angry he didn't face?

He has faced Marquez, Hatton, De La Hoya, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito. That is pretty damn comprehensive. Aside from Berto there is nobody at welterweight who you could even conveivably argue is better than any of the guys he has already beat.

Go and have a look at the Ring rankings. Better yet, I'll copy and paste them here.

Champ: Vacant

1. Manny Pacquaio
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Andre Berto
4. Miguel Cotto
5. Shane Mosley
6. Joshua Clottey
7. Jan Zevek
8. Vyacheslav Senchenko
9. Rafael Jackiewicz
10. Timothy Bradley

So of the 9 possible opponents Manny has already beaten Cotto and Clottey and he is likely facing Mosley next. He wants Floyd, but Floyd won't fight him it seems, and he would gladly fight Berto too. All the others are total unknowns apart from Bradley who only moved up in his last fight.

Your argument is ridiculous. Who should he have fought who he didnt?

[InTheNeutralCorner]

bilbo,

the big difference is that pacquiao isn't fighting any in their prime fighters at higher weights. imo, fighting and beating opponents at higher weight classes is vastly underrated, unless of course they're in their prime. do you not think marquez could have beaten de la hoya and ricky hatton too? cotto and clottey are different stories because they are much bigger than marquez and you've also got to consider marquez' age as well. while oscar is much bigger than marquez, if he came into a marquez fight in the same condition as he came in against pacquaio, marquez would have shut him out. but you cannot deny that at 37 yo., marquez has had a much better resume (with the exception of oscar's) than all of pacquiao's opponents at the higher weights. the reason why marquez/pacquiao needed to happen was because there was still a lot of questions to be answered after their two fights. most people thought marquez at least won the rematch.

the guys i mentioned, do fight opponents near their primes. sergio martinez has beaten pavlik and williams while those two were in their primes. and about pacquiao's resume, i never said it wasn't impressive. i'm just like any other fan who wants to see him challenged by a younger, in his prime opponent.

When you say 'most people' how many are you actually talking about? hundreds? thousands? hundred thousands? million perhaps? How many people's opinions were you able to obtain in that regards?

BTW, you gave out an excellent list. From that list, I'd go with Miguel Cotto.

[Mar]

....all these guys should be given their proper credit. It's just as stupid to discredit floyd as it is to discredit pac for anything they've done in the ring. Fight person a,b, and c. And people will bitch that you avoided fighter d. Going on a quest to try and please fans is a silly one. Check fernando vargas and tommy hearn's bank acct's and see how much the fans really care about the punishment you take trying to please them. Didn't we just get done watching pac destroy tony ten minutes ago and people are already complaining about who he does and doesn't fight next.

[arcanum26]

....all these guys should be given their proper credit. It's just as stupid to discredit floyd as it is to discredit pac for anything they've done in the ring. Fight person a,b, and c. And people will bitch that you avoided fighter d. Going on a quest to try and please fans is a silly one. Check fernando vargas and tommy hearn's bank acct's and see how much the fans really care about the punishment you take trying to please them. Didn't we just get done watching pac destroy tony ten minutes ago and people are already complaining about who he does and doesn't fight next.

What's truly baffling is that the same guy/s who complained about pac not facing tough opponents favored margo to win against manny in their fight. Poor margarito. Abandoned by his most loyal fan once he got beat up like a hamburger.

Which leads me to believe that if a pac-jmm or pac-berto gets made, and if manny beats either of the two, the guy who favors jmm/berto would praise manny immediately after this purely hypothetical fight then the next week would again start complaining about manny being a fraud/protected fighter. Obviously this last paragraph is purely hypothetical. Just saying that judging from the events in the past, it could very well happen.

[milmascaras1]

most definitely kermit cintron belongs on the list of fighters who should be getting a lot of credit for having tough fights! i don't agree with the premise that you've got to be a top ten p4p fighter to be on this list. that's utter hogwash!

again, will someone explain to me why pacquiao deserves to be no. 5 on the all-time list? most of his fans think so and i just don't see how he can do this with all this cherry picking. no doubt he's an all time great but at #5? that's ridiculous! and i don't care how many division titles he's won! one of them was bullshit (david diaz) and two others were at catch weights. and besides, he hardly ever sticks around that division to defend his titles, which i think really separates the true great champions from the good champions.

again, with timothy bradley, alexander, amir khan, sergio martinez, andre ward, alfredo angulo, cotto at 154 with a catchweight, sergio mora, paul williams, yuri foreman, joan guzman, all available, why oh why did they handpick the ancient shane mosley? people, the guy is done, why should pacquiao even bother to fight him? why? because he's a safe fight, that's why!

look, after shane destroyed margarito, shane badly wanted to fight pacquiao even at 140. what did roach say? na, he's too good! (exact words). but only after he saw how washed up and vulnerable shane was against mayweather and the limited sergio mora, all of the sudden he's qualified as a viable opponent for pacquiao? double standards and contradictions, anyone?