De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[InTheNeutralCorner]

hornfinger,

no matter how much you and i try to explain to these guys, they can never understand that pacquiao has always looked for way to gain an unfair advantage. i guess the kool-aid gets addicting that they're going to have to go to rehab to get off it.

The other side of this is that Pacquiao has always looked for a way for the opponent not to get an unfair advantage.

[Kev]

hornfinger,

no matter how much you and i try to explain to these guys, they can never understand that pacquiao has always looked for way to gain an unfair advantage. i guess the kool-aid gets addicting that they're going to have to go to rehab to get off it.

The other side of this is that Pacquiao has always looked for a way for the opponent not to get an unfair advantage.

It genuinely baffles me how myopic the Pac critics are. They simply cannot see that stipulation to fight at an agreed weight works in both directions.

If you are fighting for a 154 title, then I (and you) agree completely that they should fight at no more than 154, but not be restricted to having to weigh less.

But unfortunately, thanks to the modern preference 24 hour weigh ins, the maximum weight limit is no longer applicable. Fighters routinely weigh 5, 10, sometimes 15, and even 20lbs above the weight limit by the time they step over the ropes.

If losing weight is a disadvantage, how is gaining it not an advantage?

It's such a simple concept to grasp. Manny is happy to fight a 165 lb Margarito, bu he didn't want to face a 170lb Margarito seeing as he himself would only weigh 148 lbs in both instances.

As Margarito is a career welterweight I don't understand the claim that he was weight drained at all.

He must have been a corpse coming in at 146 against Shane Mosley. I wonder if Margarito and Manny fought at the full welterweight limit of 147 lbs that that people would complain even more?

Just the idea that Margarito was struggling to fight at an almost career high weight is really really baffling to me.

[milmascaras1]

look, if pacquiao was willing to step on up with the bigger boys, it's his own damned fault he was the smaller man. what the hell does he expect? if he didn't think he could beat these bigger guys in the first place at the proper weight, then why is he challenging them for? the thing is this, for all you pactards, i'm going to say that his career record has been very impressive but it has also been questionable because of his insistence on draining bigger guys. and please do not tell me he hasn't ducked anybody! he's fought bigger guys who were very slow but on the other hand, he's ducked younger, fast, in their prime fighters and that even the pactardos cannot deny this. his career has been a bevy of contradictions from his signing two contracts with top rank and golden boy, being afraid of a simple blood test, (this after asking mayweather for many concessions). the only concession mayweather made was the blood test and he wouldn't do it. why? why do any of you pacquiao fans think he didn't want to take the damn test? because he didn't want mayweather dictating to him? that is BULLSHIT and you all know it. who in their right mind would turn down $40m because you're afraid of a little blood when this cat has his body covered with tattoos. i'm sorry but anybody who believes this shit is just so either blind or shallow. mayweather sr. just came out in a statement and said if pacquiao wants a fight, he'd have to agree to a blood test. and as usual, pacquiao has been silent. the fact is this, pacquiao and arum never had any intention to fight mayweather. it was their way of petering out because they know their boy is no match for the skills of mayweather.

[arcanum26]

look, if pacquiao was willing to step on up with the bigger boys, it's his own damned fault he was the smaller man. what the hell does he expect? if he didn't think he could beat these bigger guys in the first place at the proper weight, then why is he challenging them for? the thing is this, for all you pactards, i'm going to say that his career record has been very impressive but it has also been questionable because of his insistence on draining bigger guys. and please do not tell me he hasn't ducked anybody! he's fought bigger guys who were very slow but on the other hand, he's ducked younger, fast, in their prime fighters and that even the pactardos cannot deny this. his career has been a bevy of contradictions from his signing two contracts with top rank and golden boy, being afraid of a simple blood test, (this after asking mayweather for many concessions). the only concession mayweather made was the blood test and he wouldn't do it. why? why do any of you pacquiao fans think he didn't want to take the damn test? because he didn't want mayweather dictating to him? that is BULLSHIT and you all know it. who in their right mind would turn down $40m because you're afraid of a little blood when this cat has his body covered with tattoos. i'm sorry but anybody who believes this shit is just so either blind or shallow. mayweather sr. just came out in a statement and said if pacquiao wants a fight, he'd have to agree to a blood test. and as usual, pacquiao has been silent. the fact is this, pacquiao and arum never had any intention to fight mayweather. it was their way of petering out because they know their boy is no match for the skills of mayweather.

He expects to put on a good show. That he did. Quite impressive for the smaller man to beat the bigger man. Actually demolishing them is the proper word. I doubt he had serious misgivings about winning when he signed the contracts against cotto/margo. Why blame it all on manny if cotto and tony signed their respective contracts? They didn't even complain of being weight drained after their fight. The only one who complained was oscar, and he was the one who insisted on the weights come fight night. For me, oscar's credibility when he mentioned that manny makes fighters lose on the scales 1st is nil.

By the way, margo is slow. But didn't you pick him to win against manny? So basically if manny never fought tony, you'd be complaining about how he doesn't go up against big slow fighters. That about right? Talk about contradictions.

[milmascaras1]

look arcanum, i did say margarito did have a heck of a chance to beat pacquiao but where did i ever make a prediction? you can't find an instance where i did. but listen, nobody is claiming pacquiao isn't a great fighter because i'd be lying if i said he wasn't. he is a great fighter and this may be a surprise to you, i actually admire and like the guy. what i don't like is his army of pactards claiming he's something he's not. just because he's "won" 8 division titles many of his fans think he's the greatest of all time! that is preposterous to say the least. look at opposition he's faced with today. do you actually think cotto, margarito, clottey, david diaz, and ricky hatton are HOFers? yes, he did beat cotto and that was pretty impressive. i didn't think he could. he did destroy margarito and was surprised at the way he did it. clottey? he's an absolute joke of a fighter. ricky hatton? one of the biggest hype jobs in boxing history. doesn't mean he wasn't any good at one time but he'll never sniff the HOF.

in beating an old, weight drained oscar, pacquiao didn't prove anything. you can't prove anything when the other fighter is not at their best and obviously, oscar wasn't! a prime oscar schools pacquiao every time but that's another story. let's talk about marco antonio barrera! imo, pacquiao would beat him up ten out of ten times. barrera, although a great boxer/puncher, didn't have a clue how to stop pacquiao's onslaught. what about morales! a 70% beat pacquiao convincingly even after he was coming off a loss to barrera, in an exhausting trilogy. what does pacquiao do? he rematches morales after morales lost badly to raheem. and why did pacquiao ever fight morales a third time if he knew he could already beat him?

now, let's talk about marquez! here's a featherweight and super featherweight who gave pacquiao all he could handle. not only did the U.S. boxing press think marquez won BOTH fights, so did the international press. the filipino press thought he lost their rematch. when the filipino press thinks pacquiao (their God) lost a fight, well........ here's the thing, nobody is disputing he's a great fighter but most of you pactards talk as if he's the only fighter that counts. he's not the first or the last great fighter boxing will produce. i truly believe, as do many boxing fans, that pacquiao has been carefully matched with the types of fighters he can beat. he's ducked many challengers from joan guzman, when guzman was a super bantamweight to just recently, marquez. i know you pactards don't like to read these kinds of things but someone has to shake you up a bit to remind you that he is great but not the GOAT!

[milmascaras1]

one more thing arcanum, you'd better enjoy pacroido now because when he's done with boxing, who are you going to root for. you and probably most of the pactards, will probably go into the same oblivion you were in before pacquiao came unto the scene.

[arcanum26]

one more thing arcanum, you'd better enjoy pacroido now because when he's done with boxing, who are you going to root for. you and probably most of the pactards, will probably go into the same oblivion you were in before pacquiao came unto the scene.

I'd probably root for a fighter who has the same tenacity as manny inside the ring. Now you may find this impossibly hard to digest, but that guy doesn't have to be a Filipino. Doesn't matter who he is. I could care less if he's manny the mexican taco vendor in your neighborhood and or crackhouse.

Anyway. Thread's been a nice read and I have to admit I had fun debating with Hornfinger. At least the dude doesn't deflect the topic to manny's "other flaws" according to your thinking. Then you came. You obviously had no idea what the thread was all about but after seeing the name pacquiao on the title, you went into batshit crazy mode (much like Hulk does, except he's cool and sadly you're not) and then decided to unleash your awesomely accurate accusations and blind (or "myopic" - quoting Bilbo) fury to just about anyone on board except for hornfinger. Truly the work of a genius.

So you really admire "pacroido"? Ha.. could've fooled me. I'm gonna refer you to our conversation on page 9 and 10 for my complete rebuttal. You're actually no better than the trolls in youtube/other boxing forums. Probably explains why you've been banned here before. It's easy to imagine you've been chased off/banned/flamed to death repeatedly in other forums too. You're a pactardo, except in reverse.

[arcanum26]

look arcanum, i did say margarito did have a heck of a chance to beat pacquiao but where did i ever make a prediction? you can't find an instance where i did. but listen, nobody is claiming pacquiao isn't a great fighter because i'd be lying if i said he wasn't. he is a great fighter and this may be a surprise to you, i actually admire and like the guy. what i don't like is his army of pactards claiming he's something he's not. just because he's "won" 8 division titles many of his fans think he's the greatest of all time! that is preposterous to say the least. look at opposition he's faced with today. do you actually think cotto, margarito, clottey, david diaz, and ricky hatton are HOFers? yes, he did beat cotto and that was pretty impressive. i didn't think he could. he did destroy margarito and was surprised at the way he did it. clottey? he's an absolute joke of a fighter. ricky hatton? one of the biggest hype jobs in boxing history. doesn't mean he wasn't any good at one time but he'll never sniff the HOF.

in beating an old, weight drained oscar, pacquiao didn't prove anything. you can't prove anything when the other fighter is not at their best and obviously, oscar wasn't! a prime oscar schools pacquiao every time but that's another story. let's talk about marco antonio barrera! imo, pacquiao would beat him up ten out of ten times. barrera, although a great boxer/puncher, didn't have a clue how to stop pacquiao's onslaught. what about morales! a 70% beat pacquiao convincingly even after he was coming off a loss to barrera, in an exhausting trilogy. what does pacquiao do? he rematches morales after morales lost badly to raheem. and why did pacquiao ever fight morales a third time if he knew he could already beat him?

now, let's talk about marquez! here's a featherweight and super featherweight who gave pacquiao all he could handle. not only did the U.S. boxing press think marquez won BOTH fights, so did the international press. the filipino press thought he lost their rematch. when the filipino press thinks pacquiao (their God) lost a fight, well........ here's the thing, nobody is disputing he's a great fighter but most of you pactards talk as if he's the only fighter that counts. he's not the first or the last great fighter boxing will produce. i truly believe, as do many boxing fans, that pacquiao has been carefully matched with the types of fighters he can beat. he's ducked many challengers from joan guzman, when guzman was a super bantamweight to just recently, marquez. i know you pactards don't like to read these kinds of things but someone has to shake you up a bit to remind you that he is great but not the GOAT!

Nobody here is saying he's the GOAT. Maybe you read that in some other boxing forums or in Youtube perhaps? I know this is gonna be hard for you to believe, but I don't think titles won at catchweight bouts are legit. At this point, I could care less how many belts manny has won or will win. I just enjoy him as a fighter and a gentleman, and only will reserve my judgment on whether or not in my eyes he's the GOAT or not after his career ends. And after I read up/study more about the other greats. Believe me I have a long way to go, although the journey has been truly enjoyable.

That being said, the whole purpose of this thread is to discuss if manny does indeed weight drain his opponents prior to their bouts. You probably should post your own generic "I hate manny/pactardos" thread since the majority of your posts here concern other things unrelated to the weight draining issue.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

i did say margarito did have a heck of a chance to beat pacquiao but where did i ever make a prediction?

If you gave Margarito a chance, then you think that the fight is fair. Why are you then making a big deal about the catchweight when Margarito isn't complaining?

what i don't like is his army of pactards claiming he's something he's not. just because he's "won" 8 division titles many of his fans think he's the greatest of all time!

And who among his fans has been claiming that he is the GOAT? They do mention him as being an ATG which you would probably agree that he is. It is just a question of where he is among the ATGs.

he did beat cotto and that was pretty impressive. i didn't think he could. he did destroy margarito and was surprised at the way he did it.

But instead of giving Manny credit for those you belittled those wins by putting the blame on the catchweights.

in beating an old, weight drained oscar, pacquiao didn't prove anything. you can't prove anything when the other fighter is not at their best and obviously, oscar wasn't!

So even after beating Oscar, your contention is that Manny still hasn't proven himself above 135 lbs. Then this will make Manny convincingly beating up those heavier opponents more impressive.

what about morales! a 70% beat pacquiao convincingly even after he was coming off a loss to barrera

Is Pacquiao in his prime when he was beaten by Morales? If not, then Morales did not beat a 100% Pacquiao. So, how many % Pacquiao did he beat? For the record, I just see Morales as the better boxer in their first fight and there should not be any excuses given to Manny's loss.

in an exhausting trilogy. what does pacquiao do? he rematches morales after morales lost badly to raheem.

Manny is expected to fight Morales at some point in time to avenge his loss. If it were later, then you will still criticize him for fighting an older Morales. If Manny didn't fight Morales, then you will be gloating that Manny never beat Erik.

now, let's talk about marquez! here's a featherweight and super featherweight who gave pacquiao all he could handle. not only did the U.S. boxing press think marquez won BOTH fights, so did the international press. the filipino press thought he lost their rematch. when the filipino press thinks pacquiao (their God) lost a fight

That has already been an old argument that most people thought that JMM won those fights. How many people have you heard had the fight in favor of JMM? hundreds? thousands? hundred thousands? You may have heard opinions from not even a hundred and they are not representative of all the people who watched the fight, just like the 3 judges. It was such a close fight that could have gone either way and Manny got lucky to emerge the winner.

he's not the first or the last great fighter boxing will produce

Of course, he is not. No Pac fan said that he is.

he's ducked many challengers from joan guzman, when guzman was a super bantamweight

Unfortunately, Manny cannot fight them all. Did JMM fight Joan Guzman? So he must also be ducking him.

i know you pactards don't like to read these kinds of things but someone has to shake you up a bit to remind you that he is great but not the GOAT!

You are free to write any criticisms of Pacquaio since this is a forum but it seems like you are the one who doesn't want to read about praises given to Pacquiao and a lot of them are not even coming from the pac fans.