Wikileaks? Are you for or against what they are doing?

**Gandalf** · 12-11-2010 03:51 PM

This is a very insightful interview with Daniel Ellsberg who was behind the release of the Pentagon Papers which told us a lot more about what was really going on in Vietnam. He points out some of the key criticisms of Obama and one of those criticisms is that he is actually more draconian than Bush and at the very least has perpetuated these so called 'national security' laws. We all now know that the US courts have decreed that it is quite okay for Obama to have assasinated any US citizen or non-US citizen on this planet if he so decrees. Ellsberg also predicts that something will happen to Assange and it has. And let's not forget that Obama the so called Nobel peace prize winner has expanded the war in Afghanistan, supported mass financial fraud and denied US citizens the right to see a doctor free of private corporations. I expanded somewhat with those last few items, but on the whole it was interesting to see what Ellsburg had to say in the context of what we have seen go on. It is an awful state leadership with few redeeming qualities and even freedom of the Internet appears to be going fast AWOL despite telling China that they should be more open. But of course the Ku Klux Klan is still open for business....

**Kev** · 12-11-2010 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by miles

This is a very insightful interview with Daniel Ellsberg who was behind the release of the Pentagon Papers which told us a lot more about what was really going on in Vietnam. He points out some of the key criticisms of Obama and one of those criticisms is that he is actually more draconian than Bush and at the very least has perpetuated these so called 'national security' laws. We all now know that the US courts have decreed that it is quite okay for Obama to have assasinated any US citizen or non-US citizen on this planet if he so decrees. Ellsberg also predicts that something will happen to Assange and it has. And let's not forget that Obama the so called Nobel peace prize winner has expanded the war in Afghanistan, supported mass financial fraud and denied US citizens the right to see a doctor free of private corporations. I expanded somewhat with those last few items, but on the whole it was interesting to see what Ellsburg had to say in the context of what we have seen go on. It is an awful state leadership with few redeeming qualities and even freedom of the Internet appears to be going fast AWOL despite telling China that they should be more open. But of course the Ku Klux Klan is still open for business....

That was a good interview and like you I agree with much of what he said. Certainly having watched 'The Most Dangerous Man In America' recently the feature length documentary of Elsberg I do have respect for the man and his convictions. I also completely agree that the Nobel Prize to Obama was a complete joke, and he since done nothing to show he deserved such an honour. I happen to think the Nobel Prize is nothing more than a political tool however. This year's nomination annoyed me as well, not because I don't think it wasn't merited, but rather that the intentions for awarding to a jailed Chinese dissident was entirely political aimed to put pressure on China and to align Norway, or at least the Nobel organisers with their Wester allies. I hate the idea of the award altogether to be honest.

Assange, and his subsequent treatment is an interesting subject to speculate on. I do think if America mishandles this they could well end up empowering him and even making a martyr of him to a degree.

I don't see him as comparable to Elsberg, I certainly don't believe him to be a man of integrity like Elsberg, and a lot of his leaks seem to be designed to slander the American government in any way he can, just salacious and scurrilous gossip mostly.

I don't think that compares with Elsberg who had a deep roote commitment to tell the people of America the truth about the Vietnam war, because he believed the situation to be wrong.

Assange would clearly just grab any and all documents that portrayed America an any kind of negative light without any kind of social responsibility at all.

How America responds to him will determine how he is regarded in the long term however. For me, the reveleations of the wikileaks themselves have revealed nothing that I think paints America in a bad light particularly. But they are in danger of handling this situation in an overly ruthless and controlling way, which would ironically do more damage than the wikileaks documents themselves.

But I do agree with more of this than you would probably expect of me Miles.

**Kev** · 12-11-2010 07:59 PM

Saddo's wouldn't let me give you rep so I coolclicked the link instead. But I like Elsberg.

**Gandalf** · 12-12-2010 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Saddo's wouldn't let me give you rep so I coolclicked the link instead. But I like Elsberg.

I'm glad we agree on something. I'm not particularly extreme in my views really and simply want power control centres to be held more accountable for their behaviour. Unfortunately with America being at the helm of a lot of things and showing a total disregard for not only citizens globally but also their own citizens, they get the bulk of my ire. Obama's recent tax cut extensions for the rich are a case in point. The man never listens to his population and only ever seems to work for the elite and the corporate interests that have a vested interest in him. It is a rigged system and only pretends at being a democracy. It clearly isn't. That might sound quite extreme, but when you think about it, it really isn't.

**VictorCharlie** · 12-12-2010 04:25 PM

I think the guy is a first class douche but I got no issue with Wikileaks. The Soldier that gave them the classified information though...I hope he rots in prison.

**Nameless** · 12-12-2010 04:57 PM

I am split on the issue:

ON one hand, it is good that they debunk shady stuff going behind the curtain like some of the Afghanistan files where they show how some massacre have been covered and denied but on the other, I think it is absolutely irresponsible to not cross mark the name of EVERY agents on the field which life can then be seriously threatened. A part is nice but the other is done irresponsibly in my opinion.

**Nameless** · 12-12-2010 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by VanChilds

I think the guy is a first class douche but I got no issue with Wikileaks. The Soldier that gave them the classified information though...I hope he rots in prison.

They caught him and you can be sure that his future won't be glorious at all and that he'll spend a fair time in military prison for the leak.

**Andre** · 12-12-2010 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by vanchilds

i think the guy is a first class douche but i got no issue with wikileaks. The soldier that gave them the classified information though...i hope he rots in prison.

which prison? ;d :d ;d