hard to say, but i can say this about the whole peds thing, its not magic, you do that to help you recover faster,this means you can workout more which makes you (hopefully) bigger,faster ,stronger...if you take any supplement and sit on your ass cause now you figure you can coast a bit, you won't gain...that's the key...you must and will be able to work harder...i think this is where i began to stop calling people that did peds cheaters, because even creatine is a ped, just happens to be legal under most atheletic comission rules