hook video part 1 for Kimbo

[nikola_ganchev]

See going backwards and pulling away are 2 really different things. First if you stay in your corect stance your head will be of the center to your right(for orthodox). This means it will be at the furdest distance from your oponents right hand. In this position we can not talk for right cross. I have written a post befor a week or so about the right cross. There you can see Kenny Weldon (someone who knows something about boxing not like me) explaining it. So from this position if i go backwards with taking my head with the leg rotating my front leg and sholders i have acomplished 4 defensive manuvers in one. First the sholder row then this makes my head to go even further off the center. So i have sliped a punch in the same movement. Then it comes the loading on the right hand which i can use as a reaction punch (this makes 3). And on the last place going away from your left hook. So in this position i am secure, i can throw punches and i can move. Here are some examples what you can do with this movement:
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...-videos-3.html (at about 4 min)
(at 5:30)
(at 1:45)
(at 4:46 there is more on our dicution)

(at 1:40 to the end)

So this are the reasons why i think going backwards is really solid move!
Now lets talk about the pull away. On my mind comes Muhamed Ali. He is constantly making this pull away and get hit so many times. Hire is a small example:
(at 6:40)
YouTube - gggleeson68's Channel (and all the guys in this clip)
Between this movements there is so much difference!

[donnydarkoIRL]

I just thought I'd offer a couple of the issues that I had with this video, hopefully I don't come across as purely critical.

0.40 "A straight punch is the shortest distance between you and your target."
I had great difficulty digesting this comment. In Boxing I was taught a European style. The Jab was taught as a long straight punch used as a "defensive weapon." The right straight was a powerful scoring punch from range. However, both straight punches and their adaptations for scoring to the body were long range punches. From an audio visual perspective, this coach punches in front of his body, limiting his reach and range in my opinion.

3.25 "I've seen lots of people knocked out with bad left hooks that have done a good job of landing on target."
I see the point here, but feel there is a treacherous flaw in the train of thought. A left hook that lands does carry some force even if technique is less than impeccable. However, a fighter should never voluntarily sacrifice technique for the sake of landing a single punch. Sacrificing the technique of a punch compromises balance, power and most significantly defence.

6.00 "The basic stock standard left hook compromises of only a couple of fundamentals."
I find this statement nonchalant and perhaps negligent. It took me a long time to learn how to throw a left hook and a very good trainer had to take me aside and completely manipulate my technique. It is an easy punch to throw once you know how, but it is my belief this man does not as visually he demonstrates arm punching techniques later in the video.

I hope that I did not come across as negative here. I too am trying to learn and from what I have learned so far I came to those conclusions.

[nikola_ganchev]

I didn't want to sound so critical, but the problem is that this video is made for beginers and there the fundamentals must be clean as possible. Teaching the beginers such kind of stuff won't make them any good.

[greynotsoold]

I'm not too sure about throwing that wide left hook off the front foot- easy way to get timedand knocked out, leaping in wide open and chin first. Also, with all your weight on the front foot, what do you throw next? Certainly not a right hand of any type. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to my favorite punch; I like good, short, countering hooks, where you get your weight onto your right foot and whip the punch through. If you insist on leading with left hooks, try this: slide your right foot maybe two inches dead right (not forward at all), then hook. If you can find it, the first knockdown in the Al Hostak/Freddie Steele fight came off this move, and James Toney used it as well against Freddie Delgado.
Last, I personally believe that, by landing your hook with the palm down you are just begging for hand and wrist problems. Wait until you land a hard hook on those small outside knuckles (and push them up under your elbow), or your opponent ducks and you land on top of his head and bend your wrist inward. In Phoenix I was familiar with a gym that taught that style of landing a punch and everyone of those guys visibly winced when he threw a left hook. I belive it comes from the goofy scoring rules in amateur boxing and is an effort to make a punch more visibly land on the white portion.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I'm not too sure about throwing that wide left hook off the front foot- easy way to get timedand knocked out, leaping in wide open and chin first. Also, with all your weight on the front foot, what do you throw next? Certainly not a right hand of any type. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to my favorite punch; I like good, short, countering hooks, where you get your weight onto your right foot and whip the punch through. If you insist on leading with left hooks, try this: slide your right foot maybe two inches dead right (not forward at all), then hook. If you can find it, the first knockdown in the Al Hostak/Freddie Steele fight came off this move, and James Toney used it as well against Freddie Delgado.
Last, I personally believe that, by landing your hook with the palm down you are just begging for hand and wrist problems. Wait until you land a hard hook on those small outside knuckles (and push them up under your elbow), or your opponent ducks and you land on top of his head and bend your wrist inward. In Phoenix I was familiar with a gym that taught that style of landing a punch and everyone of those guys visibly winced when he threw a left hook. I belive it comes from the goofy scoring rules in amateur boxing and is an effort to make a punch more visibly land on the white portion.

Grey I agree with the first portion of your post, but I have always wondered about the second part.
I was always told, James J. Corbett invented the left hook specifically because he wanted to protect the index and centre knucles. (as depicted in Monte Cox in "James j. Corbett, a turning point in pugilism")
Early in my boxing days I experienced the symptoms you described, pain in the outer knuckles, shock in my wrists and some discomfort to the shoulder. As my technique developed and in recent times I was finally taught the correct way to throw this punch I experienced much less discomfort. However, I believe that a hook from Middle or close distance is inefficient when thrown with the palm to the floor. Throwing the punch as if gripping a hypothetical vertical bar seems to be far more comfortable there. So just interested in what peoples opinions are on that subjecxt

[nikola_ganchev]

I land always with palm perpendicular to the flor because of the heavy bag. I can't land it there with palm paralel to the flor. Its a bad habit because the hook goes wider and the line of force is not colinear to the hand. Normally short hooks must be executed with the palm perpendicular to the flor and with increasing distance the thumb rolls up...

[greynotsoold]

I've always read/been taught/believed that the hook should be thrown with the thumb and palm inward- as if grabbing a vertical pole, as you describe., Also, my understanding of Corbett's "invention" of the left hook was that it was to protect the outside knuckles, as it was customary at that time (and I think depictions of bareknuckle fights will bear me out on this) to land a jab with the thumb up, hence putting the small knuckles at greater risk.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I've always read/been taught/believed that the hook should be thrown with the thumb and palm inward- as if grabbing a vertical pole, as you describe., Also, my understanding of Corbett's "invention" of the left hook was that it was to protect the outside knuckles, as it was customary at that time (and I think depictions of bareknuckle fights will bear me out on this) to land a jab with the thumb up, hence putting the small knuckles at greater risk.

Understood. Earlier in the thread you expressed your favour toward "short," left hooks. I think the thumb up technique certainly lends itself towards this practice. I would be a little concerned about hooking in this manner from range, but I have not experimented yet.