hook video part 1 for Kimbo

[greynotsoold]

I'm not too sure about throwing that wide left hook off the front foot- easy way to get timedand knocked out, leaping in wide open and chin first. Also, with all your weight on the front foot, what do you throw next? Certainly not a right hand of any type. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to my favorite punch; I like good, short, countering hooks, where you get your weight onto your right foot and whip the punch through. If you insist on leading with left hooks, try this: slide your right foot maybe two inches dead right (not forward at all), then hook. If you can find it, the first knockdown in the Al Hostak/Freddie Steele fight came off this move, and James Toney used it as well against Freddie Delgado.
Last, I personally believe that, by landing your hook with the palm down you are just begging for hand and wrist problems. Wait until you land a hard hook on those small outside knuckles (and push them up under your elbow), or your opponent ducks and you land on top of his head and bend your wrist inward. In Phoenix I was familiar with a gym that taught that style of landing a punch and everyone of those guys visibly winced when he threw a left hook. I belive it comes from the goofy scoring rules in amateur boxing and is an effort to make a punch more visibly land on the white portion.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I'm not too sure about throwing that wide left hook off the front foot- easy way to get timedand knocked out, leaping in wide open and chin first. Also, with all your weight on the front foot, what do you throw next? Certainly not a right hand of any type. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to my favorite punch; I like good, short, countering hooks, where you get your weight onto your right foot and whip the punch through. If you insist on leading with left hooks, try this: slide your right foot maybe two inches dead right (not forward at all), then hook. If you can find it, the first knockdown in the Al Hostak/Freddie Steele fight came off this move, and James Toney used it as well against Freddie Delgado.
Last, I personally believe that, by landing your hook with the palm down you are just begging for hand and wrist problems. Wait until you land a hard hook on those small outside knuckles (and push them up under your elbow), or your opponent ducks and you land on top of his head and bend your wrist inward. In Phoenix I was familiar with a gym that taught that style of landing a punch and everyone of those guys visibly winced when he threw a left hook. I belive it comes from the goofy scoring rules in amateur boxing and is an effort to make a punch more visibly land on the white portion.

Grey I agree with the first portion of your post, but I have always wondered about the second part.
I was always told, James J. Corbett invented the left hook specifically because he wanted to protect the index and centre knucles. (as depicted in Monte Cox in "James j. Corbett, a turning point in pugilism")
Early in my boxing days I experienced the symptoms you described, pain in the outer knuckles, shock in my wrists and some discomfort to the shoulder. As my technique developed and in recent times I was finally taught the correct way to throw this punch I experienced much less discomfort. However, I believe that a hook from Middle or close distance is inefficient when thrown with the palm to the floor. Throwing the punch as if gripping a hypothetical vertical bar seems to be far more comfortable there. So just interested in what peoples opinions are on that subjecxt

[nikola_ganchev]

I land always with palm perpendicular to the flor because of the heavy bag. I can't land it there with palm paralel to the flor. Its a bad habit because the hook goes wider and the line of force is not colinear to the hand. Normally short hooks must be executed with the palm perpendicular to the flor and with increasing distance the thumb rolls up...

[greynotsoold]

I've always read/been taught/believed that the hook should be thrown with the thumb and palm inward- as if grabbing a vertical pole, as you describe., Also, my understanding of Corbett's "invention" of the left hook was that it was to protect the outside knuckles, as it was customary at that time (and I think depictions of bareknuckle fights will bear me out on this) to land a jab with the thumb up, hence putting the small knuckles at greater risk.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I've always read/been taught/believed that the hook should be thrown with the thumb and palm inward- as if grabbing a vertical pole, as you describe., Also, my understanding of Corbett's "invention" of the left hook was that it was to protect the outside knuckles, as it was customary at that time (and I think depictions of bareknuckle fights will bear me out on this) to land a jab with the thumb up, hence putting the small knuckles at greater risk.

Understood. Earlier in the thread you expressed your favour toward "short," left hooks. I think the thumb up technique certainly lends itself towards this practice. I would be a little concerned about hooking in this manner from range, but I have not experimented yet.

[greynotsoold]

I don't think that, from a distance, the left hook is a worthwhile punch. In a recent issue of RING Hopkins agreed with this. From a distance, throw jabs and straight right hands. Now, if you can find a way to dramatically close the distance, without the other guy realizing it, hook him.
Have you seen Hopkins/Trinidad? Watch what a smart fighter (by todays standards) does to a guy looking to lead with the hook. The hook is a short and tight punch, keep the elbow close in and turn those hips.
With any luck this will open up some discussion about Joe Frazier, who didn't do many of those things and is considered a great "left hooker". I'm not so impressed and I'd love to get into this.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I don't think that, from a distance, the left hook is a worthwhile punch. In a recent issue of RING Hopkins agreed with this. From a distance, throw jabs and straight right hands. Now, if you can find a way to dramatically close the distance, without the other guy realizing it, hook him.
Have you seen Hopkins/Trinidad? Watch what a smart fighter (by todays standards) does to a guy looking to lead with the hook. The hook is a short and tight punch, keep the elbow close in and turn those hips.
With any luck this will open up some discussion about Joe Frazier, who didn't do many of those things and is considered a great "left hooker". I'm not so impressed and I'd love to get into this.

I understand and perhaps I expressed myself poorly.
The hook is a close range punch, but I do like to go through the motions, coming from outside with the jab, shifting the weight with the straight right and thus getting close for a full bodied left hook.
Again I'm afraid I'm expressing myself poorly, but essentially I agree, the hook is a close punch.

I was always surprised Eddie Futch was given such credit for training Frazier. I feel he is a great fighter, but his punchingability is from nature, there was little attention to actual technique

[greynotsoold]

Youi're right- jab, right, that gets you in close for the hook. My thing with Frazier, the way he threw his hook- off the front foot- it killed his right hand. He became a one handed fighter, and, really, his hook wasn't all that because he didn't get his weight turned.